Final Furlong Forum

Racing => General/Questions => Topic started by: Shanthi on May 06, 2005, 07:00:37 PM

Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 06, 2005, 07:00:37 PM
OK, so that I can remember (;)) and people can see/make suggestions, here is the potential/proposed list of features for the race code revamp, which will likely be unveiled at the start of 2010, since it probably wouldn't be too fair/popular to unveil it in the fall (though that's fine, too, if it's done).

Features for racing revamp:


At the moment, I have generated 40 jockeys, 3 of whom are female.  I'm not sure yet how jockeys will be selected when entering races - you will probably request up to 3, and it will get randomly assigned when entries close.</li>

Training can have a negative mental effect on your horse if he has a horrible training session, or a negative physical effect if you push him beyond what he's capable of (i.e. training a 2yo at 2 miles).  Horses can get injured during workouts.

You will be able to select equipment for workouts, but not track condition (fast/good/wet/slow).  I have not yet decided if you will be able to train multiple horses together, though that is the goal.

Horses can/will run opposite to the workout goal, as well (spook and bolt, act lazy and refuse to run, etc.).

I think workouts will be available once a horse turns 2, but I may put in something very basic for yearlings.

You will probably be limited to training horses no more than every other day (to prevent people from training a horse 2 miles a day for 8 months straight).

Note: there will be some sort of "auto-pilot" training available, for people who cannot/do not want to login and train their horses "by hand".  This will likely be slightly less effective than training "by hand" (as AI always is), but will not put your horses at a significant disadvantage.
A final item on the to do list is race animation.  As of right now, I have no idea how I want to do this, if it's feasible, what graphics/program I'm going to use, etc.  I'll keep brainstorming, though.

I have a feeling I'm forgetting stuff here, but this is what comes to mind at the moment.  I'll update as necessary (I could even be cool and mark stuff complete as it's coded ;)).  Feel free to make suggestions.

Edited to Add: Race Weights

Here is my planned scheme for weights used in races.  I still only have a very basic idea of how weights will be assigned in handicap races, but that's ok.  ;)  I've got a lot more to code first.

First, the weight allowances: (Note: these do "stack", so a 3yo filly racing in a 3yo+ open race against colts would get a total weight allowance of 5lbs)
Fillies, in a mixed-gender race: -3lbs (Note: Colts/geldings must be present in the race - entering your filly into an open-gender race will not get her a weight allowance if only fillies enter)
3yos, in a 3yo+ race: -2lbs
Maidens, in a Starter, NW1, NW2, or NW3 Allowance: -2lbs
Maidens, in an Open Allowance: -3lbs
Maidens, in a stakes race: -5lbs
Apprentice Jockeys: -3lbs (Jockeys keep Apprentice status until they reach 100 career wins)

Now, on to the base weights for each race:
Maiden: 122lbs
Claiming (Claiming Tag: $5,000-$15,000): 122lbs
Starter Allowance: 124lbs
NW1 Allowance: 126lbs
Claiming (Claiming Tag: $20,000-$40,000): 126lbs
NW2 Allowance: 128lbs
NW3 Allowance: 130lbs
Claiming (Claiming Tag: $45,000+): 130lbs
Open Allowance: 132lbs
Stakes (Non-Handicap): 134lbs
Stakes (Handicap): Varies

And, for the record, all horses' weight limits range from 115lbs-140lbs.
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on May 06, 2005, 11:27:35 PM
 This all looks

awesome!

Shipping
Is it just a given that our stables are

based in the US? Because, with a heap of Australian stakes, it wouldn't be all that

difficult to leave a horse in one country all year long. Hence, if stables had to pay board

in their desired racing country, it would cost both arms and both legs. Just a

thought...

Handicapping
With this, handicaps are usually

done on age, with the top weight being around 60 kilograms. That is usually for males,

females at the same age ie. 4yo+, are usually around 2-4 kgs lighter. 3YO top weight here is

usually 56kgs with the fillies coming down to around 54 or 52kgs even. That would be for

handicap races I guess.

Then there are also penalties a horse can obtain. Say, in the

lead up to the RL Melbourne Cup a horse runs a  blinder and wins the Caulfield, regardless of

age, he/she may gain a 1kg or 2kg penalty. It can get really nitty gritty.

Also, for races

at set ages, they normally have just two weights - 56/58kgs for colts and 52/54kgs for

fillies. So in say the Caulfield Guineas [for 3YO] all the boys will run at 56kgs and the

girls at 54kgs.

Handicapping is really confusing and in depth, have fun with this one

Shanthi! :D
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 06, 2005, 11:41:34 PM
 I will probably setup a set

weight for colts/fillies for each of the non-handicap race types (maiden, claiming, NW1, NW2,

NW3, allowance, ungraded, G3, G2, and G1).  It'll be the handicap races that will be a pain.

 ;)  Not to mention the odds in general regardless of the weight assigned.
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 06, 2005, 11:49:53 PM
Quote from: JasonCameron
Shipping
Is it just a given

that our stables are based in the US? Because, with a heap of Australian stakes, it wouldn't

be all that difficult to leave a horse in one country all year long. Hence, if stables had to

pay board in their desired racing country, it would cost both arms and both legs. Just a

thought...
Yes and no.  I think each stable will be able to choose

where they are based out of, and will need to ship from there.  (This will be limited, since

I can't/won't calculate shipping costs "live", so each stable needs to be located near a

racetrack)

So I could say I want my stable by Santa Anita, you could say you want yours by

Melbourne, Teri could want hers by Ascot, etc.  Once you pick a location, though, you will

have to stick with that location.  (I may set it up so that you could move your stable for,

say, $5 mlilion or something, but I don't know if/when I'll implement that option.)

Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on May 07, 2005, 03:10:28 AM
 Sounds awesome Shanthi.

Guess I'll be setting up ship away from y'all then... :P
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 07, 2005, 03:17:30 AM
 Eventually it'd be cool to

have separate divisions of your stable (rather like Coolmore does)...so you'd have the east

coast US part of your stable, the west coast part, the European part, the Australian part,

etc.  I have no idea if this would be feasible (or desired :P), just that it would cost a

hell of a lot of money.  ;)  But hey, we've gotta spend our riches on something, right?
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on May 07, 2005, 03:32:54 AM
 I do believe last time I

suggested that Shanthi, you blew me up! ;) Hehe, I'd love that, that would be absolutely the

most awesome thing. And yes, we do need something to spend our money on...
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 07, 2005, 03:51:06 AM
 Well, yes, but you said "can

we do that now?" and I said "it'd be nice eventually".  It's all in the wording...:P
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Andrea on May 07, 2005, 05:26:31 PM
 Plus Shanthi's the one who

has to code it ;)  So she's free to make as many suggestions as she'd like :P
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on May 12, 2005, 07:32:30 AM
 I was just wondering, when

we have weights put into play, how will the older horses counter this? Do older horses have

more strength than 3YOs? I'm not sure how to put what I'm getting at... Say I have a 4YO

with 58kgs and a 3YO with 56kgs. If both are at their peak and of virtually the same

abilities, than isn't it obvious the horse with less weight would win?
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 12, 2005, 11:38:31 AM
 Yes, but only if the younger

horse likes the race, the distance, etc, and the older horse can't carry more than 58kg (and

the younger one can carry that).

Each horse has its own weight limit, beyond which he'll

start to struggle in races.

Plus, the whole point of handicapping is to (supposedly) make

it possible for every horse to cross the finish line at once.  If the 4yo is 10-0-0-0 and the

3yo is 10-10-0-0, then the 3yo will get assigned more weight.  :P
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on May 12, 2005, 07:14:05 PM
 Ah okay. So handicap races

will not only be based on age? Cool... Sounds good!
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 12, 2005, 08:15:12 PM
 No...the entire point of

"handicap" is that it's based on perceived ability, past performances, etc.
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Andrea on May 12, 2005, 10:50:33 PM
 Races just based on

age/gender would be called "Allowances" here in the States :P
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 12, 2005, 10:54:50 PM
 Or, if they were stakes,

"Derby"/"Oaks" (for 3yos) or "Stakes".
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on May 12, 2005, 11:15:52 PM
 Yeah because age restriced

handicaps are quite rare I would imagine. Like a 3YO handicap or something. :)
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: CascadeJade on May 13, 2005, 12:02:04 AM
 Wow, somehow I missed this

post all together when it was first put up! Not sure how I managed that but yeah anyway, WOW,

all those plans for FF sound amazingly complicated and expensive but SO COOL! I CAN'T WAIT!

Seriously, yet another step closer to FF being just like real life racing!

...there was

something I was going to ask but now I've forgotton it, hopefully I'll remember it soon. :)

Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: CascadeJade on May 13, 2005, 12:04:54 AM
 Oh now I

remember......

How are you going to factor in existing racehorses background before these

features are implemented with confidence and race experience? Will they start from scratch?

Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on May 13, 2005, 01:58:11 AM
 Race experience is already

being handled, it will just be done in a more advanced way in the future.

As far as

confidence, everyone will start from scratch for the first workout or race, but then it will

build from there.  (Which means that a good workout is likely to produce another one, and

another one, and so on, as your horse's confidence keeps rising...and vice-verse ;))
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on June 16, 2005, 12:15:39 PM
 For 2010: Dirt/Turf

conditions will be different.  So far I've been too busy/lazy to set the turf track

condition to be different than that for the dirt track when races are run, but in reality,

turf tracks are usually wetter than dirt ones.

So be prepared.  :)  ;)
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on August 16, 2005, 01:31:24 PM
I've posted my detailed weight breakdown in the original post.  Feel free to comment.  :)
Title: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: JasonCameron on August 16, 2005, 08:45:48 PM
Looks pretty cool Shanthi! Can't wait to see what happens once weights are in place actually, should be real interesting...
Title: Re: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Amy Livingston on January 16, 2007, 11:22:41 PM
Quote
Now, on to the base weights for each race:
Maiden: 122lbs
Claiming (Claiming Tag: $5,000-$15,000): 122lbs
Starter Allowance: 124lbs
NW1 Allowance: 126lbs
Claiming (Claiming Tag: $20,000-$40,000): 126lbs
NW2 Allowance: 128lbs
NW3 Allowance: 130lbs
Claiming (Claiming Tag: $45,000+): 130lbs
Open Allowance: 132lbs
Stakes (Non-Handicap): 134lbs
Stakes (Handicap): Varies

And, for the record, all horses' weight limits range from 115lbs-140lbs.

Everything looks great but I have one small input. The weights seem to be overly large for each category. For example, many a maiden racer simply could not carry and impost of 122lbs. It's a huge amount. If my memory is correct, the largest weight a horse ever carried was in the area of 136lbs. That was in a stakes handicap, I believe. The point is, if these are the base weights that will be used for the new system and they haven't been modified, I would suggest to lower them.
Title: Re: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Mintano on January 17, 2007, 03:15:16 AM
Everything looks great but I have one small input. The weights seem to be overly large for each category. For example, many a maiden racer simply could not carry and impost of 122lbs. It's a huge amount. If my memory is correct, the largest weight a horse ever carried was in the area of 136lbs. That was in a stakes handicap, I believe. The point is, if these are the base weights that will be used for the new system and they haven't been modified, I would suggest to lower them.

Maidens carry exactly around that weight, at Philly park today in the first race, a maiden claimer for three-years olds, all the horses were carrying 119-121 lbs.

140lbs is a bit on the high side, but it is also the limit so I imagine only the 'greats' would be running with this weight.
Title: Re: Racing Revamp Features
Post by: Shanthi on January 17, 2007, 03:32:36 AM
The weight for handicap races ranges from 108-150lbs.  Only horses who are odds-on favorites would carry anything close to 150lbs, however.

The weight that horses can carry and still run at 100% is 115-140lbs.