Final Furlong Forum

Racing => General/Questions => Topic started by: Shanthi on October 04, 2006, 05:18:05 PM

Title: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on October 04, 2006, 05:18:05 PM
So, with the addition of jockeys to the game for next year, jockeys will expect to be paid.  ;)

My tentative pricing plan for jockeys is:
Jock Level1st-3rd Money4th-14th Money
Apprentice10% of Winnings1-2% of Purse
Veteran15% of Winnings3-4% of Purse
Top Jock (Top 5%)20% of Winnings5% of Purse

For the above amounts, the jockey takes whichever amount is higher.  (They're greedy bastards ;))

So, say you've entered a $10,000 maiden race.

If your horse finishes in 1st-3rd place, the jockey takes 10-20% of the money you earn ($1,000-$6,000, depending on the placing)...so s/he would take $100-$1,200, depending on your horse's finish placing and the jockey's status.
If your horse finishes in 4th or lower, the jockey takes 1-5% of the purse of the race ($10,000), which would be $100-$500, depending on jockey status.

Because the jockey is greedy, they will take whatever amount is higher ($100-$1,200, or $100-$500).

Apprentice Jockeys have less than 100 lifetime wins.  (Apprentice Jocks, or "bug" riders, also get less weight assigned to their horses when they ride.)  I will likely set it up so that jockeys with < 50 wins charge 1% to ride, jockeys with 50+ wins will charge 2% to ride)
Veteran Jockeys have at least 100 lifetime wins.

I have not yet figured out how I will assign the top 5% jockeys, but this will likely be based on win %.  (And, for the record, top 5% jockeys will not come into play until we have a decent amount of veteran jocks, so don't worry about getting overcharged too soon ;))

I've set fees up this way so that: jockeys earn money for riding, regardless of placing (which is only fair).  If you pick an apprentice jockey, you will likely earn money provided you place 4th or better (like now)...if you place 4th, you will receive 7% of the purse in race winnings, and pay out 6-7% of the purse (5% entry fee + 1-2% jockey fee).  If you are willing to pay more for a veteran/top jockey, your horse will need to place better than 4th for you to make money.  (Veteran Jockey = spending 8-9% total on the race, so you would need to place 3rd or better to earn money....Top jockey = spending 10% total on the race, so you would need to place 1st or 2nd to earn money.)

Comments/suggestions are welcome.

(Final Note: I will be generating more jockeys so that there are plenty to choose from when racing begins in 2011.)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Cheq on October 04, 2006, 05:25:20 PM
Since none of them have any wins do they all start out as apprentices ;) :) Are we going to be able to give them orders that they may or may not abide by or do we just trust in the jockey :o
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on October 04, 2006, 05:35:57 PM
All jockeys will start as apprentice jocks in 2011.

You will be able to give jockeys instructions, which they (in their infinite wisdom ;)) may ignore.
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Smylie on October 04, 2006, 06:46:37 PM
Well being more of a Harness racing guy than a Thoroughbred guy I can't speak to the Jockeys side of things but I can speak to the other side. In Harness racing you have to be IN the money to GET the money. They break down the purses into 50-25-12-8-5 percent first thru fifth. AS an owner youget to pay the regular fees that are associated with keeping the horse at the track, usually $1000 to $2000 a month for feed, vet etc.. When the horse races and wins part of the purse the Trainer takes 10% of the winnings as well as the Driver takes 10%. That's 20% off the top...... you get to keep the rest!!!!  ??? I do believe that the top drivers do get and receive incentives as in a percentage of the purse but I wouldn't swear on the bible on that one.
      I think from a coding standpoint it would be easier to go with something like what I've outlined above and then if a jockey is in the top 5% he could get extra purse incentives as was outlined in Shanthi's message. More ramblings from an age crazed madman for you to beat about!!!!  lol
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on October 04, 2006, 06:52:21 PM
That's generally true, but in FF, you don't pay board or training fees.  So, if you like, think of the jockey's flat fee as the equivalent to paying a(n assistant) trainer to help with your farm.

And, just by the numbers, $5,000 is nothing to spend to keep a racehorse in training for a year.  (As you said, a horse in training usually costs $1,000-$2,000 per month.)  So spending a bit of extra cash on a jockey to ride the horse shouldn't be a huge deal.  ;)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on October 06, 2006, 02:43:27 AM
Would everyone feel better with just the 10/15/20% of race winnings, rather than that + flat fee?  (Note: If I scrap the flat fee, I will have jockeys charge their % for 1st-5th, not just 1st-3rd...don't panic, this turns into a range of $30-$60 if your horse finishes 5th in a $10,000 maiden).

I don't want racing to suddenly become impossible to make money with, especially for newer players.  However, I do want jockeys to get paid for riding.  :)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Amy Livingston on October 06, 2006, 03:45:52 AM
While I as a new player would like to keep all of the money when my evil ponies do decide to place, I think it is only fair that jockeys get paid for helping our horse get a good place, after all jockeys are a very important part of the race. Also, it make the game more realistic as jockeys get paid in real life. Otherwise, they *probably* wouldn't be jockeys. ;)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: CascadeJade on October 06, 2006, 07:34:13 AM
Well, I stayed out of this discussion because I wasn't sure how jockeys were paid in real life but I was under the impression that they only make money if the horse makes money UNLESS they are a top notch jockey where they get a flat fee plus a higher than normal percent of the winnings. But then again this is was just my impression.

I thought the flat fee for all jocks was a little steep plus the percent they'd get if the horse earned money. It would be pretty hard to make a decent amount of money off the allowance horses or lower...especially for newer players I think who often are just trying to figure out how to race their horses properly(and more often than not don't race their horses to thier best advantage for quite awhile).
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Smylie on October 06, 2006, 02:04:13 PM
I'm good with the revised plan............ however I still think that if you don't place in the money, you get no money!!!! Helps the jocks have some incentive to WIN the race!!!!

Myles
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Cheq on October 06, 2006, 02:09:11 PM
The revised plan is fine especially in light of the revised tax structure 8)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on October 06, 2006, 02:24:42 PM
I'm good with the revised plan............ however I still think that if you don't place in the money, you get no money!!!! Helps the jocks have some incentive to WIN the race!!!!


Um....that's what I just said.  If your horse EARNS money (1st-5th place), you pay the jockey.  If not, you don't.  Hence, jockeys getting paid for getting their horse into a money-earning spot.
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Smylie on October 06, 2006, 06:45:37 PM
I guess we have a go for lift-off Houston!!! ;D
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: blujackit on October 06, 2006, 07:21:24 PM
Sounds fine to me, especially for the new players. I know before last year my goose would have been cooked if I had to figure out how much the jocks were taking from a pittance race. So long story short, looks awesome
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Freedom on October 30, 2006, 10:19:40 PM
Shipping costs and jockey fees are going to ruin me!  :o (Of course, I'm just complaining, since it doesn't sound like jockey fees are going to be too high)

Regardless, I'm all for the realism, so I think this is a neat feature. I agree with the 1-5 placing/paying thing. I don't disagree with the flat rate, but this sounds cool. ;)

Great job! I'm excited for next year.  ;D
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Andy on November 13, 2006, 03:44:12 AM
As a guide in Australia the real life fees are something like this -

$125 flat fee per ride
5% of any prize money earnt, with an additional 5% paid for stakes races at the owners descresion.

I'm happy with whatever is decided, just thought most would like an insight into the goings on in the real world.

Andy  8)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: grljck13 on November 18, 2006, 04:42:30 PM
In the  U.S. there is a flat fee for 4th thru last.  It ranges from $40 to $100, depending on the purse.  They recieve 5% of 3rd place, 5% of 2nd place, and 10% of first. 

Don't know if it matter, just thought I would let you know. 
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on January 18, 2007, 10:46:31 PM
For 2011, at least, we will be using a flat rate when your horse earns money in a race.

Veteran jocks (>= 100 lifetime wins) will collect 15% of the earnings.
Apprentice jocks will collect 10% of the earnings.

This may change for 2012, but we'll see how this year goes.  :)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Freedom on January 20, 2007, 05:28:14 AM
Nifty. Good decision in the end.  ;)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Andy on January 22, 2007, 05:24:25 AM
Now that we can select our own jocks, has any consideration been given to where they base themselves?

At the moment it seems feasible that a jock could be racing in both USA and Australia on the same day! Either way the jocks are a great innovation  ;)
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Shanthi on January 22, 2007, 02:35:31 PM
At the moment, jockeys do command superpowers.  ;)  They can race in race #1 in the US, and race #2 in Australia.

I might eventually create location-specific jockeys, but for now, let's settle into the new features we've got.
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Freedom on January 22, 2007, 10:13:11 PM
Ooo, jocks with superpowers! That would be cool.  ;D
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Sorceress Edea on January 23, 2007, 12:26:50 AM
That is cool haha.  Super Birdsong Man!
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: qwiksilver on May 22, 2007, 03:09:13 AM
Is there a place to look at jockey stats?
Title: Re: For 2011: Jockey Fees
Post by: Smylie on November 26, 2008, 04:07:26 PM
We need to revamp the jockeys a bit. I've just went thru the lists and we have no apprentice jockeys on the flat side. The jocks on the jumping side are all showing as apprentices. 4 jocks have won 100 races and should be classified as Veterans. The lowest number of wins for the flat racing jockey is 111 this year to date. That would make any jock a vet after only one year of racing. I don't think this is what we were shooting for.
If we upped the number of wins to be a veteran jock to 300 we would regain 2 apprentices. If it were 350 we would regain 8 apprentices and 2 might make it to vet status by the end of the year. If it were 400 we would regain 12 apprentices and 4 might make it to vet status by the end of the year.
Personally, I think we should go to 350 wins to become a veteran at the end of the year and possibly add 3 to 5 more green jockeys.

Just food for thought!!!

The other thing we could do is take the 5' 1" jump jockeys and use them in the flats!!!!! Just saw that weight would not be an issue as they are all under 110llbs.