Final Furlong Forum

Breeding => Lineage Questions => Topic started by: Shirozora on November 30, 2008, 04:04:16 AM

Title: FF Nicks
Post by: Shirozora on November 30, 2008, 04:04:16 AM
I've been looking around and I haven't seen threads talking about FF stallion nicks, so I'd like to ask what the best nicks are. This is specifically because I have these lovely girls, Sonatina (http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=3823) and Lady Ironsides (http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=5703), and I'd like to know who their best matches would be in the future.

But I'd like to know all the best FF nicks anyways so do share. Might help us newbies out when we try to jump into the breeding end of the game.  ;D
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: CricketHill on November 30, 2008, 03:46:16 PM
What do you mean by nicks?  As in short for nicknames?  Or do you mean, like, a niche?  Like so and so was a good sprinter, and that guy throws good turf babies, etc.?

One good way to start out would be to check out the eclipse awards.  Not every colt who won something ended up being a stallion; however it is a good indicator of who had a REALLY good year one year that they excelled at whatever category they won.  If they won more than once, that's just icing on the cake.  ;)

Other ways to select studs, if you're looking for proven studs, is to check out their breed rankings, or look at the raw statistics on the stallion stats page.  For unproven studs, you can see how they ran--what distance and what surface they liked best.  You can also look at your mare's dam, and she if she crossed successfully with any particular stallion, or if your mare's half-sisters have produced any promising horses with a certain cross.

And sometimes, it's best to just go eeney-meeney-miney-moe.  I've definitely gotten a couple nice horses from just doing that.  ;)
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: Shanthi on November 30, 2008, 03:56:15 PM
A "nick" is a breeding term for a pair of bloodlines that tend to produce good horses when bred together.  (I believe a real-life nick is Storm Cat/Mr. Prospector).

In FF there aren't really "nicks" per se, since we don't have enough bloodlines, but the main one I've seen is Highland Rogue/What's It Worth.  (Though really, I think that follows more "breed the best to the best and hope for the best", because both sires have outstanding produce records individually as well as together.)

It is certainly possible for there to be nicks, with the way the game genetics are setup.  However, I don't know that we have a large enough horse population to be able to say "oh, this crossing produces 90% stakes winners", when a given cross may only have 5 offspring to date.

The rest of Cat's advice is, as usual, excellent. :)
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: Shirozora on November 30, 2008, 06:37:02 PM
Nicks = which sireline matches up the best with which. While Storm Cat/Mr. Prospector is great, Seattle Slew(A.P. Indy)/Mr. Prospector is freakish. In Reality/Seattle Slew is also smashing, while Bold Ruler/Princequillo is legendary. Those are the kinds of nicks I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.  ;)

Around and about I heard talk about wanting Hollywood Planet mares, and Highland Rogue/What's It Worth crosses so I thought I should ask. I just wanted to know if certain sirelines had a certain affinity to other sirelines. Because while it's always fantastic to breed the best to the best, it's even better when the particular sireline of the best trends to cross well with the particular sireline of the other best.

Has the FF Secretariat line crossed well with other sirelines? FF Man o' War?
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: CricketHill on December 01, 2008, 04:42:22 AM
Worth and Rogue cross very well, you're right there.  I guess you cross the best with the best, you're gonna get a monster, anyway you look at it--the trick now, because both sires are retired, is which son do you choose? I haven't actually sat down and compared the Rogue or the Worth sons to each other to determine which is the best/most successful.  I do admit to being extremely partial to Highland Laird (Army Laird, anyone?), since I've been very fortunate with several of his get (of the 3 I've owned/bred to race: 1 MSW, 1 SW, 1 SP).  I'm less passionate about the other Rogue sons, but some of them are very young and unproven.   

If I were you, I would definitely get yourself a Laird baby before that boy retires, given that he's getting up there in age.  He should have a HUGE 2yo crop coming up next year. 

Andrea, if she's still around, would be the one to answer any Planet Hollywood lineage questions.  She stood him for quite some time, and she probably has the best idea off hand of who he works best with.  Planet Hollywood, Rainbow Quest, Cross Roads....all good, solid lines.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: rebelrun on January 15, 2012, 02:59:14 AM
I'm not sure if I've stumbled onto something or if it might actually be a real nick, but I've had a lot of success (and seen it with others once or twice) from a Seattle Slew x Cross Roads mix.  It seems to be most successful when it's via Seattle Slew directly through the dam-line (as grandsire of the horse in question), through his sons Seattle Sorcerer or Northern Slew on either side, and Cross Roads, whether directly or via Backseat Driver.  To find out, I've begun a little breeding project - of course, it'll take several years to prove on my own.  I have a few horses to list as examples, one of which belongs to another player.  I haven't looked through every single possibility in game but I've looked through a good number. 

Margaritaville (http://"http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=5941") (Seattle Sorcerer x All Too Cross via Cross Roads) - Stakes Placed (on dirt, close 4th on turf)

Sunless Seattle (http://"http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=4315") (Backseat Driver via Cross Roads x Miss Tee via Seattle Slew) - Multiple Stakes Winner/Multiple Stakes Placed (on dirt and turf)

Sweet Dilemma (http://"http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=6018") (Cross Roads x Sweet Slew via Northern Slew) - Stakes Winner (on dirt)

Seattle Agent (http://"http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=8234") (3/4 sib to Margaritaville, Seattle Sorcerer x Secret Agent via Cross Roads) - Stakes Winner/Multiple Stakes Placed (dirt, turf, and jumps)

There are a few other horses out there bred on this cross, but the ones I've found have been left inactive for a year or better.  One or two are unraced.  I have a foal due at the end of the month from a Cross Roads mare by Golden Text, to test that route.  Southern Cross (http://"http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=18292") will be starting next season to test the efficacy of Double Cross in the line.  Seattle Slew is further back in his pedigree, so it should be interesting.  I've bought a couple of Seattle Slew and Cross Roads mares to test my theory. 

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: JasonCameron on January 15, 2012, 07:38:35 AM
I've had some luck with Cigar and Seattle Slew. To Die For has Slew on his sire line and Cigar on damline. When I had less broodmares and paid more attention, this was one cross in really wanted to try.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: Grace Littlef on January 15, 2012, 05:33:31 PM
I have 2 dif Ch by Devil May Care though Retired nowonee was out of a dam line going back to danzatore and one created,I also have a ch.broodmare who's dam line goes back to Planet Hollywood I stay on the lookout for his get still available.
Also have had luck with a Ch now BM, by Streetwise x Cross Roads who's dam line is by Resident Evil out of alydarling (I raced her and now she's breeding),also a Ch filly by cross roads and on dam line bold ruler, I have a few Cross Roads either sire or grandsire, also on the dam line side , I tend to look for heartsblood, Mumbojumbo, Hollywood queen, Townsend holly. These all seem to pass down their good genes.
I have a colt with the following pedigree that races this yr I'm excited about the cross,
Enter Stage Right
By-NCh. Sneak Peek (B)   (What's It Worth (G) x Doubletake (S))
Out of-Ch. Marilyn Monroe   (Class Act (G) x Pretty Pumpkin (G))
Also have a 3yo colt with Worth on the sire line and cigar and rogue on the dam line
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: North Oak Farms on April 28, 2012, 09:46:00 PM
Maybe stallion owners could create a thread where they post what their stallions have crossed best with?

It would be cool if, at some point, this information was posted on FF somewhere during rewrite

my stallion, I'm A Classic, has an unnaturally large % of stakes winners from "created" stock.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: Shanthi on April 28, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
It would be cool if, at some point, this information was posted on FF somewhere during rewrite

What information, though? It's easy enough to identify common sire/broodmare sire combinations (which the hypothetical mating page already shows), but identifying more nebulous family connections is tougher.

Technically you described an "anti-nick", really, as all created horses have no relatives in the game. So the fact that I'm A Classic crosses well with created mares doesn't mean created mare A will produce the same sort of foal with him as created mare B.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: North Oak Farms on April 28, 2012, 10:44:07 PM
Just identifying common sire/bms combos.  Kinda like enicks does (have you used their site? It's fun to play with!)
Try it some time.  It's free to join.  When you login, click "Get An E-Nick" and type in a real mare (ex: Zenyatta), and then the state/region you want to look at.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: JasonCameron on April 28, 2012, 11:44:17 PM
Of my stakes winners this year, I have:

Abu Simble (Highland Rogue via Strider, What's It Worth via Kamaole Sands)
Aficonado (What's It Worth via Gunningdownromance, Highland Rogue via High Times)
Gabriel (What's It Worth via I'm Your Angel, Highland Rogue via High Enough)
Kowhai (What's It Worth via Candidate, Highland Rogue via Summer Rose)
Madam President (What's It Worth via Candidate, Highland Rogue via High Times)
Pure Silk Lady (Highland Rogue via Magic Cross, What's It Worth via Light My Way)
So Audacious (What's It Worth via Foolhardy, Highland Rogue via High Times)
Take Me Higher (What's It Worth via Foolhardy, Highland Rogue via High Enough)

There are probably a couple of other nicks in my stakes winners too - I noticed a Secretariat / Cigar which I think works (from memory) and of course the Seattle Slew / Cigar I mentioned a few posts back.

Whether HR/WIW is a nick or just a case of breed to the best, I don't know. As long as it keeps working, I'm happy.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: imagine on April 29, 2012, 06:46:29 AM
I've bred a Cigar mare to Slew O'Scots this year on the basis that the two runners produced on this cross so far are NCh To Die For and GCh Edinburgh, both stud qualified. Probably too early to say it's a definite nick but certainly one I'll be keeping an eye on.
Title: Re: FF Nicks
Post by: Shanthi on April 29, 2012, 09:40:08 AM
Whether HR/WIW is a nick or just a case of breed to the best, I don't know.

Nicks (as such) don't exist in the game. ;) The breeding code compares sire and dam, checks for inbreeding, and then uses those values (plus randomness) to generate foal stats. It doesn't care if the sire is by Jimbob or the mare is out of a mare by Joe Blow.