Final Furlong Forum

General => Questions => Topic started by: Steph on September 16, 2013, 08:36:00 AM

Title: jockey comments
Post by: Steph on September 16, 2013, 08:36:00 AM
I tried searching for this answer but these were too many to sift through

I just noticed on one of my horses I had two comments and I don't know what they mean
X refused to run at all
X refused to rate at all

Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Steph on September 16, 2013, 08:40:47 AM
I think I did know one of them but because they're so similar I got thrown off lol
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on September 16, 2013, 10:25:59 AM
Refused to run indicates low natural energy.

Refused to rate means they're not rateable. ;)
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Steph on September 16, 2013, 11:53:49 AM
Oh very interesting, I haven't seen the refused to run one before

Rate means listen to the jockey doesn't it? As in might need a F8..
I'm writing this all down so I don't have to harass you again, hopefully ;D
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on September 16, 2013, 11:58:33 AM
Rate means listen to the jockey doesn't it? As in might need a F8..
I'm writing this all down so I don't have to harass you again, hopefully ;D

Yes, rating is when the jockey says "hey, let's slow down and run behind horse X", or "let's speed up and run ahead of horse X" - if the horse isn't ratable and doesn't like that idea (e.g. its most preferred running position is on the lead and the jockey wants to sit midpack), then it will waste energy fighting the jockey instead of listening.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Steph on September 16, 2013, 02:28:11 PM
:) Thanks Shanthi
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: North Oak Farms on September 16, 2013, 02:43:02 PM
What about moderately rateable?  What if a horse 'hates his equipment' but is only wearing a saddle & bridle?  When a horse spooks badly do you add blinkers or shadow roll? 

someone should post what usually works in response to the comments.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on September 16, 2013, 04:26:55 PM
What about moderately rateable?

Then you sometimes get lucky if the horse cooperates, and sometimes get unlucky. You can try a figure 8 (which helps ratability, but only if the horse likes wearing it).

Quote
What if a horse 'hates his equipment' but is only wearing a saddle & bridle?

Then he wants to wear something in addition to saddle/bridle. You can hate the lack of something as well as the presence of it.

Quote
When a horse spooks badly do you add blinkers or shadow roll?

You can try, it can also be a sign of immaturity (horses who aren't used to the track will spook more).

Quote
someone should post what usually works in response to the comments.

No offense intended, but the game won't play itself for you. ;) Some common sense/trial and error is meant to be applied.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Starfish on September 16, 2013, 05:37:50 PM
the game won't play itself for you. ;)

Oh rats! LOL!!!
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: joe0605 on September 16, 2013, 07:57:51 PM
Just reading ... Great answer Shanthi - but was hoping you we're gonna tell us the magic formula :))
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: North Oak Farms on September 16, 2013, 11:28:13 PM
I know it won't play itself for you, but a primer for newer players would probably be helpful.  Like 'if your horse spooks, try a shadow roll' and other stuff.  It's at least a starting place for people.  When the horse hates his equipment, but isn't wearing any, I assume it's having one of the 'moments' my 8 month old daughter has 'I HATE EVERYTHING! AHHH!' LOL
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Steph on September 17, 2013, 01:14:55 AM
There are some handy bits on the FAQ under race entries. What I usually do is search the forums for previous discussions about equipping
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on September 17, 2013, 07:01:56 AM
When the horse hates his equipment, but isn't wearing any, I assume it's having one of the 'moments' my 8 month old daughter has 'I HATE EVERYTHING! AHHH!' LOL

No, then the horse just hates the fact that he's dying to wear X (blinkers, shadow roll, whatever magic combination) and is instead wearing nothing.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on September 17, 2013, 07:19:16 AM
I know it won't play itself for you, but a primer for newer players would probably be helpful.  Like 'if your horse spooks, try a shadow roll' and other stuff.  It's at least a starting place for people.

I wouldn't say that anyway, though. Spooking, bolting, and fighting the jockey are random "special" events that can happen during a workout. They can happen to any horse, regardless of age/immaturity/equipment/etc - they have a greater chance of happening in certain scenarios (spook for immature, bolt for high energy, fight for high energy/low ratability), and the chance can be lessened if they happen to be wearing (and liking!) the equipment that helps with that (B/SR/F8, nothing can really help with high energy ;)). The advice of "try a shadow roll" applies to any horse, regardless of whether they spook or not.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Leah on September 17, 2013, 04:32:36 PM
Jumping on this topic to ask another, related question.

I think I read somewhere that jockey comments with regards to equipment (X hates his equipment vs X loves his equipment) are pretty trustworthy. Is this true? The reason I ask is that I have several horses who've gotten the "X loves his equipment" comment, only to receive the "X hates his equipment" during a later workout, even though they're wearing the same equipment, being worked out by the same jockey and are even sometimes at the same track. One time this happened in a time span of mere days. Do the preferences for equipment change as a horse ages? Or are the comments simply related to how well a jockey knows the horse?
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: imagine on September 17, 2013, 04:33:52 PM
Finding out what works for each horse is often a case of trial and error. Failing that I usually find selling to another stable often brings about marked improvement  ;)
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on September 17, 2013, 08:22:19 PM
Preferences for equipment don't change.

Or are the comments simply related to how well a jockey knows the horse?

This.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Mintano on September 19, 2013, 03:04:14 AM
This topic came up at a good time!

Romantic Memory (http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=8509) apparently hates everything, bar her jockey, she seems to like him well enough! Other than her first 4 workouts she has had Joseph Birdsong on for the ride since she was a 3yo.

6/2/2015 - Loves no equipment (Okay so she did apparently like something for a brief period)
1/4/2016 - Hates no equipment (Fickle filly!)
1/9/2016 - Hates blinkers
2/29/2016 - Hates shadowroll
3/19/2016 - Dislikes wraps (Less hatred maybe?)
3/21/2016 - Hates F8
7/5/2016 - Dislikes No Whip (More less hatred!)
9/18/2017 - Hates Blinkers, Shadowroll and Wraps

So what do we make of this? Obviously hating her equipment hasn't hurt any! More of an experiment for me now to figure out what the heck she does like! Obviously the comments about hating blinkers and F8 came only after a couple days of training with the equipment so maybe try those again? She likes her jockey and he does know her like the back of his hand. Oh goodness now that I've said that she'll take to hating him too!  >:D
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: CricketHill on September 19, 2013, 03:15:14 AM
I would give her another whirl with no equipment. Depending how well the jock knew her last year/earlier in the season, he could be lying.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: ivycreekfarm on September 19, 2013, 04:25:59 AM
I make my decisions only after I've gotten a comment at least twice AFTER the jockey says he knows the horse "like the back of his hand", because they can still make mistakes at any point. If they know the horse well, it's more likely that they will be correct, but I like to make sure they meant it (by repeating it).
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: the1stpsycho on September 19, 2013, 11:11:23 PM
Failing that I usually find selling to another stable often brings about marked improvement  ;)

Nice method :)
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: North Oak Farms on September 20, 2013, 01:55:46 AM
I tend to wait until I get a couple of 'hates equipment' from the same jockey.  Sometimes I think it's a fluke, like maybe the girth was bugging the horse or a wrap was itchy.  I just laugh when a horse not wearing equipment hates equipment.  Thankfully, someone said the horse hates the LACK of equipment.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Grace Littlef on September 20, 2013, 05:52:21 AM
Every time I sell a horse they go on to win for the new owner :(  fickle ponies
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Hilda with Clicker on November 25, 2015, 06:23:55 PM
Looks like this jockey can't make up her mind... ::) I got these comments recently:

11/25/19    M. Fink     Lointaine seems to like running off the pace.
11/24/19    M. Fink    Lointaine seems to like running on the lead.
11/23/19    M. Fink    I know Lointaine like the back of my hand.

She already said that she knows this horse "like the back of her hand" many times before, and that they get along well (or OK), so should really know her by now...
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Shanthi on November 25, 2015, 08:08:21 PM
To be fair, both statements might be right. ;) The pony doesn't necessarily need to have a strong favourite running style.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Hilda with Clicker on November 26, 2015, 05:41:35 AM
I just changed her to "let the jockey decide" ;)
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: imagine on December 05, 2015, 02:57:23 PM
Got one today that I've not seen before:

"Smaug was unresponsive."

This is a 2yo filly (June baby) who had a minor injury in training earlier in the year so has been at the farm since June, possibly longer, before coming back into training about three weeks ago. She's currently unraced and most recent training comments have said she seems tired, ran out of steam or seems out of shape. She's mostly been doing walk and jog sessions up to a mile in total. I'm thinking she's probably immature and needs to go back to the farm. Would anyone agree with that assumption?

Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Hilda with Clicker on December 05, 2015, 03:57:14 PM
Was it three weeks in a row, daily training? Maybe she's just had too much. I think I've had this comment when Natural Energy dropped due to too much training or racing.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: imagine on December 05, 2015, 04:56:19 PM
She did her first session on the 21st of November and got the "has lots of energy comment" then she's been on a Monday, Wednesday and Saturday schedule (I think the first one she did was a Saturday and I have my generic schedule set to 1/2 mile walk on Monday, 1/2 mile walk and 1/2 mile jog on Wednesday, 1/2 mile each of walk, jog and canter on Saturday) and all comments have been pretty negative. I think she might just be a bit backward as she's been getting fat at the farm since May so had a really long rest.  She's had 7 workouts since coming back into training and she had 7 workouts in May leading up to the injury (swelling). Interestingly, most of her May workouts were positive ones - 2 X has lots of energy, 1 X raring to go mentally and a couple of dislikes equipment and a  "sorry, don't know her well" one.
Title: Re: jockey comments
Post by: Hilda with Clicker on December 05, 2015, 05:53:07 PM
I would probably race her if she's A/A and see comments after that. But, I have my worst OTB percentage ever this year ;) and I think it's because of too much training generally. I'm now trying to train them less, especially that it was taking forever to find the right jockey and get him/her to really know the horse. And I only have one horse, Rodrigo Borgia, who got this comment: "Rodrigo Borgia and I get along great!". The first time the jockey said this was 08/20/19 and since then the horse is always 3rd, 2nd or 1st, and before he was always off the board. Also, maybe the jockey doesn't like the horse but hasn't told you yet ;) because this also happened to me sometimes - several negative comments and then the jockey says "X and I don't get along at all".