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Shanthi
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« on: October 20, 2005, 08:59:05 PM »

I've been thinking about this for a while, but haven't ever remembered it long enough to post about it.

Basically, what I'd like to do is setup (at birth - and retroactively for current horses) a random age/date when a horse will need to retire from breeding, and another random age/date when a horse would die.

At the moment, the "rule" is that studs retire from breeding at 16, mares retire from breeding at 15, and all horses die at age 20.  But since we're adding so much realism to racing/training/ownership/etc, it seems a bit lopsided to not have horse ages/deaths be realistic as well.

If I get really fancy, this will also be affected by a horse's racing career...more frequent races and more races in a racing career would mean the horse has a greater chance of a shorter breeding career and/or shorter lifespan.

So, presumably, if randomly generated, the age/date ranges would be:
Retirement: 10-20
Death: 15-25

So...what do you guys think?  Vote, and please post your thoughts/opinions.
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sange
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2005, 09:03:59 PM »

Since your'e looking for realism you may want to change it to random.
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taylon
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2005, 11:22:25 PM »

Yes, I would say random is much more realistic.

My real horse is 27 years old, and just completed another amazing show season.  He is much like an energizer bunny, he just keeps going, and going...

And I also know many horses that have continued to produce high quality foals into their 20's.

Of course, showing and reproducing late into life isn't for every horse, but it is very possible.

Taylon Hall
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Andrea
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2005, 12:32:19 AM »

I voted for random death, retire at 15, but that's becaue I don't like the concept of horses sometimes retiring from breeding at 10.  We originally put 15 (from what I remember) because we didn't want too many horses/etc.  However, now that we're trying to "inflate" the number of horses in the game some and we've got more automation, I think retiring them that early is a bit unrealistic.

I'd be able to get more behind something like... random retirement between 15 and 25 and death from like 18-28 and then a random chance of horses (studs and mares) being infertile (so like I dunno, 1:100 chance of sterility)?  And you could maybe do that each year for breeding stock to account for "accidents" (so stud could get sick or mare could have internal damage during foaling, etc).  But there'd also be a chance of a horse being born sterile so that they'd never be able to breed.  Might be a bit more complicated then what you're looking for though ;)
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JasonCameron
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2005, 12:44:03 AM »

I like Andrea's idea about random retire at 15-25 and random die 20-30 or something like that. That's the best one so far. :)
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Shanthi
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2005, 12:50:35 AM »

OK, how does this sound?

For Studs:
Random retirement age between 10-20
For Mares:
Random retirement age between 15-25

For both:
Random death age between 15-25 (Obviously if they're supposed to die when they're 18, they don't get to breed until they're 20/25)

The reason for this being:
- Mares are already "at risk" of dying when they're bred, both due to foaling complications and the strain of carrying twins
- Studs generally have more problems physically continuing to breed...mares, generally, will keep breeding until they die if you can get them pregnant every year (as they get older if they skip a year it's usually harder to get them rebred again the next year)
- Our stud:mare ratio is insane at the moment, so I'm all for reducing the number of studs available at any given time ;)

Sterility and accidents sound cool, eventually.  :)
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Andrea
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2005, 12:52:54 AM »

I'm content with that :)
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Dawn
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2005, 01:01:25 AM »

I would go with random, in RL everything is random... and as far as stallions & mares longevity in the breeding shed... welll Seattle Slew's last foal Broke her 2 year old Maiden this year...she was born after he died... very long breeding career for that Grand Stallion... but look at the breeding problems with Genuine Risk... one of only three fillies to ever win the Kentucky Derby... only 2 live foals... both colts... and one is a gelding... he was gelded for a bad temperment...

Hey Shanthi... ever think about bringin in her son as a stud... nice bloodlines...
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Sorceress Edea
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2005, 01:28:07 AM »

Sterility and accidents?  Haha, thatd be pretty amusing actualy.  When a mare reaches her random retirement age, will we get a warning the year before telling us the baby she is carrying is to be her last?
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Shanthi
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2005, 01:28:53 AM »

I'm open to considering any/all famous studs, provided that there is member interest and I can have some vague semblance of being able to replicate their abilities in a realistic fashion.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2005, 01:29:28 AM »

Quote from: Sorceress Edea
Sterility and accidents?  Haha, thatd be pretty amusing actualy.  When a mare reaches her random retirement age, will we get a warning the year before telling us the baby she is carrying is to be her last?


No, just like real life.
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CascadeJade
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2005, 03:15:32 AM »

I like it! Adds an extra ounce or so of realisim.
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ashlee118
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2005, 10:30:42 AM »

Quote from: JasonCameron
I like Andrea's idea about random retire at 15-25 and random die 20-30 or something like that. That's the best one so far. :)

Yeah i agree with that as well, being the best idea
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Shanthi
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2005, 12:14:02 PM »

Quote from: Dawn
welll Seattle Slew's last foal Broke her 2 year old Maiden this year...she was born after he died... very long breeding career for that Grand Stallion... but look at the breeding problems with Genuine Risk... one of only three fillies to ever win the Kentucky Derby... only 2 live foals...


True, but on the flipside, you have Cigar, who's infertile, and studs like Free House, who died at age 10.  You also have mares popping out foals every year into their 20s (I rode a 23yo once who had a 2yo filly).  So it goes both ways.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2005, 04:25:45 PM »

OK, I think we will go with:
Quote from: Shanthi

For Studs:
Random retirement age between 10-20
For Mares:
Random retirement age between 15-25

For both:
Random death age between 15-25 (Obviously if they're supposed to die when they're 18, they don't get to breed until they're 20/25)


The only issue now is what to do with current breeding horses.  If we take, say, a 14yo stud and generate a random retirement date for him, he could end up having had to retire at age 10...or he could get lucky and make it to age 19.  So some of these "last year" studs may not actually have next year be their last year.  (The same applies for mares, obviously.)

What I think I will do is generate a random date for every horse that is not set to retire at the end of this year (so basically anyone who is 14 or younger)...if their retirement and/or death dates are in the past (so they sould have retired at age 10, and now they're 14), then they will retire at the end of this year.  (For mares, this means that they would not be bred next year, but they would successfully have their 2010 foal.)

If their retirement and/or death dates are in the future, then they'll get to continue breeding until they hit that date.

Please note: this means that a stud's breeding season could be cut short if their retirement date is in, say, May...they will retire on that date, so if you don't have your breeding in by then, you don't get to breed to them.

For mares, I think I will modify the breeding code to check for a retirement date in the next year, and if there is one, then the mare will not conceive.  (I may get fancy and check to see if she's due to retire around the time she would foal...so say it's currently 4/20/10, and she's due to retire on 3/8/11...she would still be allowed to breed, but she'd be due to retire and foal at the same time, so the foal would likely be born premature.)
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Andrea
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2005, 05:09:34 PM »

Sounds... confusing ;).  

I'm assuming/imagining that if a stud retires pre-August of a given year then his status will become Retired Stallion as of the day he retires so that mare owners could book to different stallions (as opposed to simply never getting a foal the next year because the stallion retired but no one knew)?
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Shanthi
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2005, 05:46:30 PM »

Yes, he would officially become a Retired Stallion, and mare owners would have the remainder of the year to book to a new stud.
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Andrea
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2005, 05:49:03 PM »

Works for me :)
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Shanthi
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2005, 05:55:10 PM »

Yeah...the end result won't be that confusing.  Horses will have a set retirement date, and a set death date...once they reach either of those dates, they will immediately retire/die.  Once they've retired/died, they obviously won't be able to be bred anymore.

The only slight confusion is what to do with mares...but as I said before, what I will likely do is check if the mare is due to retire within 345 days (normal gestation length) of the breeding date...if so, there will be a chance that the foal will be stillborn, a chance that the foal will be premature, and a chance that the mare will just not end up in foal at all.  If not, the mare will be fine to be bred as normal.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2005, 09:07:15 PM »

OK, all horses now have retirement and death dates assigned.

Studs who will be retiring as of 12/31/09:
Class Act
Conspiracy Theory
Killing Time
Lucky Cigar
Redwood Prince
Resident Evil
Townsend Prince
Valid Wager

All other studs will retire at some point after Dec 31, 2009.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2005, 09:17:54 PM »

I've decided that if a mare is due to retire and won't be breedable, her status will be changed to retired once she has her last foal...this should avoid confusion of trying to breed a mare that's supposed to retire.

Thus, there is no list of mares who will retire on 12/31/09, as they will retire once they foal, when applicable.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2005, 09:21:06 PM »

Finally, as a random snippet of info.

Average retirement age = 17.33288590604
Average death age = 20.140756302521
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« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2005, 09:41:57 PM »

I think Both should be Random
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Shanthi
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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2005, 10:16:13 PM »

Um...both are now random.
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Grace Littlef
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2005, 12:33:03 AM »

so i bought killing time and now i cant use him at all?? i wouldnt have even heard of this thread but someone told me as im in the middle of moving. i have people wanting to breed to him this spring so what does that mean i just remove him altogether? im confused.
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WHEN GOD CREATED THE HORSE,HE SPOKE TO THE MAGNIFICENT CREATURE: I HAVE MADE THEE WITHOUT EQUAL, ALL THE TREASURE OF THIS EARTH LIE BETWEEN THY EYES.

Home of,Ch. Set It OffNew in the Studbarn-guest stallion-NCh.Irish Gold,our studs- ICH.Gilded Saint, NCH.Golden Text, NCh. Black Light II
Shanthi
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2005, 12:37:05 AM »

Yes, it means that of the 100 or so studs in the game, Killing Time was one of the 8 that were slated to retire before 2010 starts.  I'm sorry you didn't get to breed to him, but next year would've been his last year at stud, anyway.
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Grace Littlef
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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2005, 02:30:29 AM »

well poo that sucks i was hoping  to breed my two broodmares and my one im going to retire ..... not sure my new ones are or will ever be near qualifying for stud.

i know lucky for you wont

 not  sure where   miss lonelyhearts is as far as that goes.

thanks for answering me as quickly as you did i will have to resort to public computers starting monday.

wish me luck all we have a 5 day cross country trip ahead of us with two kids and a dog all stuffed into a ford mustang ( oh an  hubby too!!) LOL
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WHEN GOD CREATED THE HORSE,HE SPOKE TO THE MAGNIFICENT CREATURE: I HAVE MADE THEE WITHOUT EQUAL, ALL THE TREASURE OF THIS EARTH LIE BETWEEN THY EYES.

Home of,Ch. Set It OffNew in the Studbarn-guest stallion-NCh.Irish Gold,our studs- ICH.Gilded Saint, NCH.Golden Text, NCh. Black Light II
Andrea
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2005, 03:47:22 AM »

Technically Lucky For You is qualified as long as he retired this year.  Miss Lonelyhearts is not qualified (the difference being Lucky For You has a graded stakes win and Miss Lonelyhearts has an ungraded).

That said, I'd strongly encourage you to retire neither of them.  Neither will be in demand as a stud and there are plenty of people with different/nicer stallions who are offering discounts and/or free breedings to newbies.  Almost every stud owner in the game is more interested in getting foals racing than stud fees.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2005, 03:56:15 AM »

Lucky For You has nice bloodlines, but not really nice enough to recommend him as a stud, especially since there are already 2 Lucky Cigar sons at stud (both for very low fees).

Good luck with the move!
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Shanthi
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2005, 01:52:46 PM »

We've had our first deaths. :(

Abracadabra and Out of the Bid died this morning.

This also brought to mind the question of "what if a mare is pregnant when she dies?"  I've decided that one of two things will happen:
1. The foal will die with her, if she dies long before the foal's due date (like now, when she'd have only been pregnant for 2-8 months rather than 11)
2. The foal will have a chance to be born prematurely, if she dies close to its due date (since you figure, if she slips in the field and breaks her leg, they could stabilize her enough to induce labor and deliver the baby before putting her down).

Sound OK to everyone?
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Sorceress Edea
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« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2005, 01:05:40 AM »

That sounds good to me.  It's very realistic.  But going into that, are mares already more susceptible to dying from having twins or is that something that has to be added in?
That was my random question of the day :)
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Shanthi
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« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2005, 01:27:36 AM »

If a mare is due to foal twins (which is a 1/1000 chance), there is a 50% chance that she will die (and the foals will live), and a 50% chance that all 3 horses will live.

There is also a 1/500 chance that the mare will die with a single foal, and the foal will live.
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Shanthi
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« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2005, 05:11:44 PM »

I realized I forgot to setup new retirement dates for 15yo (1994) mares.  All of them now have randomly generated dates, and all of them are now back to active broodmare status.

Enjoy your "new" broodmares again!  ;)
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