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Final Furlong Forum - Pricing of Horses

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Fleet Feet Thoroughbreds
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2006, 04:01:22 AM »

Shanthi, I know a lot of people really appreciate how you've helped them out by selling them a horse for a good bargain. I know if I hadn't had the chance to win Spellbound from you I probably would have gone bankrupt seeing as my original starter horse couldn't run worth s---.

But I also want to point out that there's not too many people on this game who are that generous. I personally made many offers to larger stables in my first six months of the game following your guidelines. I generally made offers on geldings that I believed were very fair because a. they still weren't proven after many races, or b. they were no longer performing at the level they once did. And sadly to say most of the stables I contacted never got back to me. (even to politely decline my offer or explain to me why they didn't want to sell which I would have really, really appreciated)

So putting myself in the shoes of someone who hasn't been in the game that long I can definitely see the chain of events that leads to this

A) you're starter horses are no good and aren't making any money on the track so you're loosing money for entries
B) You're not lucky enough to get a good bargain from a generous larger stable/or that bargain horse has peaked and still doesn't bring in any money
C) You're then forced to buy a horse for top price/slash more then they're worth because there's practically nothing to buy or claim and you feel you must jump at the first thing that comes along.
D) That horse you just paid $40,000 for doesn't pan out for you and you have no money and your horse(s) aren't making you any money
E) Meanwhile you really only have a couple of choices: 1. you must wait for the Mixed Auction which may be almost a year away in hopes of getting something REALLY cheap that can actually run. (which is unlikely) 2. try to sell the horses that aren't working for you for more then they're worth (assuming they're really only worth 10-15k) so that you can either save up for an auction or hope to buy a better horse. (Many newbies who overprice their horses now would probably be more then happy to sell that horse for half of what they were worth if they had a 50 horse stable, but since they don't, I think they often feel their back is against the wall)

You can also handicap the races but realistically it isn't nearly as profitable as selling the horses in your barn that don't want to run for you.

I'm not trying to justify or condone overpricing of horses. I'm just saying I can see why it happens and the reasons are because there aren't enough horses. Now I don't have any great way to fix this, although I thought your idea of possibly allowing FF horses to be claimed sounded good. I'm torn between regulating prices though because on one end I feel that letting the market take its natural course is the best way to handle things but on the other end it makes it even harder on newbies especially when it's an established stable that is overpricing their horses. Although I do feel that people need to take responsibility for their purchases and should not complain about being ripped off if they make the mistake of overpaying for a horse. I guess in the end my motto is live and learn.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 04:03:50 AM by Fleet Feet Thoroughbreds » Logged
Shanthi
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2006, 02:15:17 PM »

Your scenario makes sense, except for one thing.  If you start with 2 racehorses, and enter them only in maiden races, you're spending an average of $750 per race.  With $50,000 to start off with, you could enter them 33 times each before you ran out of money.  (Since, if you're brand new, taxes on them will either be $0 if they stink or $5,000 if they're good.)  That's a lot of races that you can afford.  Is it possible that you get a starter horse that just can't/won't run and won't earn a dime in 33 starts?  Sure, but it's unlikely.  The script that generates starter horses makes sure that they are, generally, of "average" quality with ther stats...this means that they should be able to at least win a race, even if they won't necessarily go on to become stakes winners.

Part of the challenge of this game is that you have to go out and find that horse that's a "steal".  It's highly unlikely that someone's gonna PM you and say "here's this multi-million dollar horse for $500".  If people won't respond to PMs (many people don't check the forum), try e-mail.  If that doesn't work, move on to another stable.  There are 150 of them, and even assuming 100 of them are too small/new to want to sell horses, that still leaves a lot of stables to check out.

--------------------

The main problem with newbies overpricing their horses on purpose (other than the fact that it is fleecing other members out of more money) is that generally it's other newbies that buy the horse.  Older, more experienced members generally know a horse's worth and won't pay for an overpriced one unless it's for sentimental reasons.

So that continues the cycle...except that for option C it's buying from another new player and it happens more often because all the newbies end up in an endless cycle of losing money.
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Fleet Feet Thoroughbreds
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2006, 05:58:31 PM »

Oh, I forgot newbiews get two horses now, I started off with one, and I did get the two freeby horses but they're still only yearlings now.

I know I emailed and PM'ed large stables and only heard back from probably about 1 out of 10. I know the game isn't suppose to be easy and trust me it isn't  ;)  I'm not complaining either. I guess my point is that a lot of big stables don't respond, even to decline smaller stables offers, even though I've heard a lot of people claim that they're open to smaller stables making offers as long as they state a price. So maybe I'm just saying everyone should try and be a little more sympathetic and at least politely decline when someone makes an offer instead of just completely ignoring them.
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Andrea
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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2006, 08:13:50 PM »

Most stables I know of do respond unless they're out of town or busy.  It's the beginning of the school year for a lot of people and before this it was summer when people were on vacation.  Don't get upset with people because they're not on their computers constantly. ;)  (Not saying you are, just saying don't assume people are trying to be rude when they don't answer).
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Cheq
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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2006, 08:38:53 PM »

There's also a trick to asking for horses. The time of year makes a difference. Near the end of the year and at the biginning of the year stables are "culling". That doesn't mean every horse they are willing to let go is bad. Usually with me is I've lost patience and 2 yo's are comming. I've sold and set to claimers my share of horses that turn out to be soild earners :P . It never hurts to ask but most people that've asked me have excellant taste in horses ;) ;D , and have pick horses I want to race myself. But if there asking about somrthing I haven't decided on I'll  give them first shot at the horse before I sell it ;)
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Andrea
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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2006, 08:59:01 PM »

And usually if people ask me for a horse that I'm not willing to sell or sell in their price range, I'll take a look through my stable and suggest one or two that are.  I'm not offended if they're not interested, but if players make an effort, I'm perfectly happy to make an effort back.  I know Shanthi and several other large stables operate with that method as well. :)
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Fleet Feet Thoroughbreds
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« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2006, 11:13:48 PM »

I did most of my requesting in the first 6 months I joined, which was about 7 months ago. I'm just talking from my own experience and that was that most people never responded. There were a few stables that did though and I really appreciated it  :)
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Smylie
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« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2007, 07:16:13 PM »

     One of the things that I've seen lately is that I've entered horses in claiming races fully expecting them to be gone and lo and behold they are still in the stable the next day. When I first got here the claiming issue was one of my pet peeves as well. Personally I'd like to see a claiming race per track per race day now that we have hit the saturation point. In real life some horses are destined for the claiming ranks and once they've gone there few of them return to the conditioned races.
     One of the things that has led to this is the cost of shipping. All of a sudden you can't ship a horse from Woodbine to Australia to England and back to Woodbine for nothing anymore. If the horse doesn't have a legitimate shot at winning there airfare you need to look at racing at local tracks and doing it strategically.
     As far as the not responding to PM's or e-mails I do most of my game work at "Work"  >:D and if anyone were to try to contact me over the coming holidays I most likely wouldn't respond. I've been ignored and I've moved on, it's as simple as that.
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« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2008, 06:10:58 PM »

I always try to respond when someone sends me a message, usually its to decline an offer but i always try to get back to them if i can. I also appreciate all the replies i get , the few times i have asked someone about a horse it usually worked out. Its taken me almost 3 yrs to build my stable and i hate to let anyone go, so when i do its been a long thought out process, due to sentimental reasons i have a hard time letting "my babies" go. lol. For a lot of us who cannot own a real horse anymore or ride due to injuries (aging sucks!!) we live vicariously through our game horses. (hence my sentimental snot-bubbling ((as hub calls it))over my dead filly)  ;D   I love playing and some days i log in like 30 times, lol, but i digress. Just dont get down and keep a positive attitude , eventually someone will respond and you might just be surprised..
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« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 09:10:42 PM »

I sometimes get requests for horses and make it an absolute priority to answer them. I remember how disheartening it was as a newbie, asking around and geting an awful lot of nobody replying. But one or two stables DID help, selling me horses at reasonable prices and to them i am grateful
However i have tried to help some newbies only to find that they leave without returning loaned horses (before proper leasing was introduced) or other problems. I know other stables who have similar stories to tell. So sometimes people can be treated warily until they show they are not "here today and gone tomorrow"
I do still ask for leases or sales from other stables whose horses I admire if I think they may have any spare. I often get a positive response, sometimes a polite refusal, but i don't take it personaliy. Like Grace I hate to part with any of my horses so I'll lease but rarely sell. In fact I will be having some horses up for lease in the next few days at very low prices but some conditions attached - so if interested PM me and I will discuss it!
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Gwen

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« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2008, 02:48:47 PM »

I am still waiting for my stable but I can say.watching my grandson and daughter in law play that there are alot of stables willing to help newbies. As for horse prices..from what my daughter in law has said look at geldings(younger ones) and fillies. You can get them at good prices at claim races and sometimes..just sometimes for sale. Just the advice from her...though watching her..she is right... ;)
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