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Final Furlong Forum  |  Breeding  |  Lineage Questions  |  Topic: Who should I breed to?
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TwistofFate95
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« on: June 21, 2009, 06:37:56 PM »

I claimed Beautiful Dancer recently, she has been running well and I want to retire her to breed at the end of the year. She is by Northern Dancer and out of Beautiful Dreamer by What its Worth. Also, I am not planning on keeping baby, I am looking to book to something that will bring a nice profit as a private sale one or two year old or at a yearling auction. Any ideas for a daddy? ???

Thanks ;D

http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=3032
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 06:46:17 PM by TwistofFate95 » Logged
CricketHill
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2009, 07:40:24 PM »

I would really, really hold off on breeding her.  It looks like she's in her prime and she would be able to make more $$ for you on the track than she would in the breeding shed.  If you retire her now, she won't turn a profit until late 2014 or early 2015 when the foal is weaned.  In addition, you'll be taxed on her during those times. 

By breeding her now versus next year I don't foresee you turning much of additional profit by having her pump out one extra baby.  If she continues to race and does well, her value of as a broodmare will climb.  If you get her at least stakes placed or better, you'll be able to sell the baby in the Select Auction, which tends to command higher prices, versus the usual mixed auction where you might be lucky to get $10k-$15k, depending on the foal's breeding.  Furthermore, the breeding season is practically over, and people tend to favor the foals born earlier in the year since they will be more mature as 2yos and Derby time than those born in.

As far as possible studs... I'll have to take a moment to look at her breeding.  However, if you're looking to make money off her foals, ensure that she runs to the best of her ability in the best company that she can be competitive in (i.e. an allowance mare with a good record and many wins is better than the mare that ran mostly in stakes and hit the winner's circle once in a fluke race).

ETA: She does have a lovely female line, which would work in her favor as a potential broodie (but I'd still like her to run more...that would raise her dam's ranking up to Silver, at least).  Sons of Count Fleet (but not Count Me In) and Alydar (but not Alley Cat) should they ever appear might be worth a try.  Absolutely no Rogue or Worth sons (inbreeding).  Romeo crossed will with Northern Dancer once, so perhaps NCh. Player when he qualifies/retires.  Devil His Due may be an interesting cross as well (Millionaire Hunter's Hero is by Northern Dancer, and is 1/2 to Devil His Due) or a Devil May Care son when one retires.  Those suggestions are based on her lines.

As far as my typical go-to studs (though as of yet, most aren't proven): King David (Bold Ruler son, turf horse); Lonesome Glory (now retired, but his sons show promise, penchant for SC); Starz 'N' Stripes (horse by him I had liked the dirt); Irish River (mare by him likes the dirt); Cigar (not sure about any of his sons); Crystal Rainbow (son of Rainbow Quest).  Throw in your choice of Planet Hollywood and Cross Roads sons. 

My own studs--Dark Continent (Land Ho) and soon to be stud Long Live the King (Bold Ruler) would also fit the bill for your need of an out-cross (i.e. non-Rogue, non-Worth).  There are also some very nice created runners than will be retiring from the track in a couple years.  They're perfect for those mares that need some new blood thrown into the mix.  There are always the FF famous studs (Holy Bull, Rock of Gibraltar, War Chant, Octagonal, etc.) which guarantee you at least a modicum of quality. 

Try to find the best stud you can afford with a solid race record, which ideally compliments your mare's.  Younger studs are less proven, but also less expensive.  You can get one with 12+ wins for less than a $20,000 stud fee.  The higher restrictions than in years past also mean that higher quality animals are available for breeding (and seems to encourage a much longer racing career).

I wish the best of luck, but I hope you will wait until next year to breed this wonderfully bred mare.  If she's been run a lot by FF, she deserves to show you what's she's capable of under real management.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 08:15:03 PM by CricketHill » Logged
TwistofFate95
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 08:12:03 PM »

Thanks, I will wait and see how she continues to run. But if anyone has any syuds to recomend for next year feel free to say. :)
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Shirozora
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 09:15:30 PM »

Ummm, I don't know if this is the right place to ask the question but I noticed that the horse is a Stillwater lease. Can you claim a lease?
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ivycreekfarm
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 03:06:53 AM »

Yeah I noticed that when the claims were open, and sent a PM to Shanthi...
Otherwise I would gladly have put a claim in on her, but I figured she's just going to get swooped back home to Stillwater any minute.
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Alyssa
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 02:36:54 PM »

I would really, really hold off on breeding her. 

  Absolutely no Rogue or Worth sons (inbreeding). 

I wish the best of luck, but I hope you will wait until next year to breed this wonderfully bred mare.  If she's been run a lot by FF, she deserves to show you what's she's capable of under real management.

Just to chime in from left field here....... While I agree with sentiments above I also agree with the, "No sons of Rogue or Worth", but it is perfectly acceptable to breed that mare to a grandson or great grand son of either one of them. This puts them in the 3rd and 4th generations of the potential foal. While this is arguably "inbreeding", it still is an accepted practice that produces acceptable results. A good example of this would be "Big Brown". He is bred 3x3 to Northern Dancer, 3x4 to Damascus and 4x5 to Round Table. All of which were great sires in there own right and when you double up these genes in an acceptable way you usually get good results. That foal, if it's a filly, "Should" be bred to a totally outcross stallion. that is one that does not have any of the same ancestors in the first 5 generations.
Just my 2 cents worth from left field!!!

Myles
The Grey Stable
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