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Final Furlong Forum - How'd You Do? [2014 Edition]

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Shirozora
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« on: December 04, 2010, 11:27:11 PM »

Since my horses have been doing so well and bringing home a lot of paychecks we decided to splurge a little and upgrade our stock. And by "splurge a little" I mean "let's blow $100k and hope nobody else challenges our bid".  ::)

For a hundred grand we picked up Farewell to Arms, a light bay yearling filly by ICh. Candidate (S)-Ch. Home Fries (P), by Home Sweet Home. We gunned for her because of her dam's platinum rank and because we own Candidate's first stakes winner, Super Tuesday. So even if she can't run a lick she'll make a valuable broodmare. Win-win!

We're trying to think up a new name for her. Brain's turning to scrambled eggs.

How'd you guys do?

« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 08:39:25 PM by Shirozora » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 05:32:26 PM »

I usually don't splurge at auctions, but I decided to spend $50k on a filly and won!

Sirannon is a gorgeous filly by Ch. Irish River (G)-Black Queen, by Black Legend (G). I've always wanted a filly by Irish River, but the fact that her broodmare sire is Black Legend sealed the deal. Black Queen's dam is Reine-de-Course as well, so I am super-psyched about this filly! She was $51,500.

Golden Flower is a leggy black filly by GCh. Harvard Bound (S)-Golden Flames (S). She is half to four stakes winners and a MSW, so hoping she will have the talent to match. I got her for only $10,500.

Cortado is a handsome dark bay colt by NCh. Gimme A Shot (S)-Indy Fashion Flair, by A.P. Indy (S). He's the first foal from his dam, so I don't know how this cross will turn out. I'm hoping for a nice runner. Indy will be renamed. He was only $13,500.

North Shore is a feisty black filly, also by GCh. Harvard Bound (S) and out of Smoke n'Shadows. Her only sibling is multiple stakes-placed and is a pretty consistent runner. Consistency is all I want! She was a last-minute buy, for $20,500.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 07:42:21 PM by skyclad » Logged
Grace Littlef
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 07:54:36 PM »

i am super excited as the computer randomly chose me out of 3 bidders for the one horse i really wanted , the only problem is the program did not delete the other bids i had in when it had someone else as leading(in the shuffle) instead of my stable. so waiting on hearing from shanthi but other wise my stable was awarded the

colt Tentatively calling him- Highland Velvet - by Highland Laird (S) out of  Grande Finale (G) i really wanted this guy for his breeding alone, i have none of this line in my stable his sire is Chef de Race and of course a leading sire and his dam tho not show much on the track is a gold ranked producer.

after going thru my babies i do have his line in my stable but all as grandsire, this one is my first straight baby from him.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 12:11:27 AM by Grace Littlef » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 10:48:29 AM »

This hS been a very frustrating auction so far. I had bookmarked five horses that I was interested in and placed bids on all 5. Two of them quickly went over the limit of what I could bid and still be able to be active in the bids for the others, so I dropped out of the Auctions for them.

The other 3 Auctions have had me tearing my hair out in frustration. I placed what I considered reasonable Maximum bids on each of them, and have been monitoring those 3 Auctions continually throughout. On a number of occasions, I have watched as the Time Left on those Auctions got down to leas than 3 hours (one even got below 2 hours left), then, the next time I checked, somebody had put in a bid for $500 more than the previous current bid and my Proxy had kicked in with another $500 and the Auction was back up to 11+ hours left. My frustration isn't with the fact that somebody has tried to put in a higher bid than mine (it wouldn't be an Auction if people couldn't do that). My frustration lies in the fact that they have waited until that late in the individual Auctions and then only put in the minimum raise. It's almost as if somebody has decided that they are going to play 'spoiler' and force the bids up for the horses with low current bids but aren't putting in a serious bid. If they put their bids in with 5 or 6 hours left or they raised the current bid by more than the minimum, it wouldn't be so frustrating.

[BTW - I'm not implying that somebody is singling me out. I have started monitoring the complete Auction page and have sorted the list by Time Left. I noticed on one occasion yesterday evening, Ballydoyle were heading the list and were winning about 6-8 horses whose Auctions had less than 2 hours left and Godolphin were also up there with a bunch of Auctions with about 2 hours left. When I next looked, there were no horses whose Auctions had less than 2 hours left.]

I find it interesting that after 1 full day of the Auction, barely 10% of the horses have actually been sold and a number of them opened with the maximum $100,000 bid. For an Auction with a 12 hour Time Span, I would have expected a much higher percentage, especially since more than a third of the remaining Auctions  have a current bid of less than $10,000.

Forgive my ranting/rambling. I guess I just needed a Forum to vent my frustration.
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Lewis
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 11:05:00 AM »

I find it interesting that after 1 full day of the Auction, barely 10% of the horses have actually been sold and a number of them opened with the maximum $100,000 bid. For an Auction with a 12 hour Time Span, I would have expected a much higher percentage, especially since more than a third of the remaining Auctions  have a current bid of less than $10,000.

It is a rather peculiar auction, the strangest I've seen yet. I've been monitoring the auction, too, and it's gotten to the point that I do a mental fist-pump whenever a horse actually gets sold.
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 11:16:56 AM »

The same's been happening to me Lewis, as you said very frustrating to repeatedly be so near and yet so far  :( Hoping I'll finally get somewhere today!

Just happened again, one horse come up to being an hour left and someone's increased the bid by $1000 so back to the top of the countdown again  >:(
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 11:43:23 AM by imagine » Logged
Emma @ Generous Bloodstock
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Shanthi
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 11:21:58 AM »

This is actually how auctions generally run...most horses don't sell in the first day, unless they're the few that get early bids and no one cares to challenge them.

Lewis, your point about people possibly purposefully waiting to "snipe" you in order to reset the clock is a fair one...however, I'm not sure how to combat that, really. :( I could implement a rule that you can only have bids out for a certain number of horses at one time (if you're the high bidder), but that would limit peoples' ability to have backup horses picked out in case their first pick(s) didn't work out. Obviously I don't want people rigging the system, but I also don't want to jeopardize the regular bidding process.

Another option, which I've considered in the past, is to re-do the auction system to actually simulate a real auction. We used to do live auctions in the chat room, but due to time zones, real life commitments, etc, that didn't work so well. We could do a similar sort of concept via the game, though...auction off lot #1, probably with a shorter reset time (rather than 12 hours)....once lot 1 is sold, move on to lot 2. Only accept active bids for the lot that is currently being bid on, but allow "advance bidding" on other lots...so if you know you really want lot 43, you could bid 100k (in this auction's case) in advance, and lot 43 would start off with your bid active.

That would prevent people from rigging the system (mostly), but would possibly mean auctions would take weeks. ;) I'm willing to consider it, though, if people like the idea. (Or if people have other/better ideas.)
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Starfish
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 11:42:37 AM »

Could the Auction be set up so that, if a bid comes in which is less than the Current Bidders Maximum, while the Current Bid would be updated, the Time Left wouldn't, i.e. Person A opens with a Max Bid of $20K so that the Current Bid is $1,000, then Person B puts in a bid of $1,500 which, because of Person A's Proxy, makes the Current Bid $2,000, the Time Left does not get reset? I'm not sure how easy that would be to code.
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Lewis
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 11:55:08 AM »

I think that might be a fair compromise--the clock doesn't reset unless a new high bid is established.  The exception, of course, being that the $100k horses get reset.

That being said, I will say that the prices for horses are much better this year than they have been in the past.  We typically see a number of horses going for $1,000.  That seems to be the exception to the rule this year.
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imagine
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 12:12:15 PM »

Sounds like a fair recommendation to me and might encourage bidders to stick to only bidding on those horses that they actually want and can afford.

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Emma @ Generous Bloodstock
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 12:55:42 PM »

Could the Auction be set up so that, if a bid comes in which is less than the Current Bidders Maximum, while the Current Bid would be updated, the Time Left wouldn't, i.e. Person A opens with a Max Bid of $20K so that the Current Bid is $1,000, then Person B puts in a bid of $1,500 which, because of Person A's Proxy, makes the Current Bid $2,000, the Time Left does not get reset? I'm not sure how easy that would be to code.

That would be easy enough to do, I think.
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 12:56:00 PM »

Sounds like a fair recommendation to me and might encourage bidders to stick to only bidding on those horses that they actually want and can afford.

What sounds like a fair recommendation?
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 01:08:00 PM »

That if someone bids on a horse but doesn't meet the previous bidders maximum it doesn't restart the countdown unless as Cat said the bid is 100k. Sorry, should have made myself a bit clearer.
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Emma @ Generous Bloodstock
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2010, 01:11:01 PM »

I think that might be a fair compromise--the clock doesn't reset unless a new high bid is established.  The exception, of course, being that the $100k horses get reset.

That being said, I will say that the prices for horses are much better this year than they have been in the past.  We typically see a number of horses going for $1,000.  That seems to be the exception to the rule this year.

This should be live in the code now. If someone can confirm that if they bid on a horse and get the "your bid wasn't high enough" message, that the clock doesn't reset, that would be great. :) I don't want to bid on anyone just as a test case, though.
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2010, 02:20:05 PM »

Shanthi,

I tried that with a horse that had 11+ hours left and it didn't reset the clock, so it looks like the code change worked. Thanks for your quick response.

Can you delete my bid plus the automatic rebid so that the current bidder, Black Storm West, doesn't end up paying $1,000 more than they might have needed to? The horse was the Doplomat-Delicate Luck yearling filly,  http://www.finalfurlong.org/viewhorse.php?horse=12993

Thanks again.

Oops, I just reread your previous post and realized that I did exactly what you said you didn't want to do. Sorry about that {holds out his wrist to be slapped}.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 02:25:22 PM by Starfish » Logged
Lewis
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2010, 03:57:21 PM »

Got both the main two horse I was looking for which I'm happy at.

Wizard Prince - Yearling colt.ICh. Prince of Wonder x Ch. Special Gift (NCh. Highland Wizard). I love his linage and had to have him. Got him for $25,000

Devil's Dawn (Formally Unnamed) - yearling filly. NCh. Devil May Care x Dawning Light (Crimson Lad). I own a colt by her sire and i've been watching for any foals by him for sale. Spent more then I would have liked but she's worth it at $54,500
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 08:34:43 PM »

because of an earlier bug it had let me bid when i was still in the running for the one i got whoever wants the following baby my max on her is 50k just go over that by $1 and you will lead as i have spent my 100k this is for anyone that is looking at her:)


Unnamed    2014    Weanling    Rumor Has It    Sudden Appearance    Unraced    Final Furlong    None    $14,000    Iron Spur Stables    0d 3h 3m 4s    Bid
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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2010, 10:12:01 PM »

Ended up comig home with two, both colts.

Free For All whom we renamed Fawkes ala Harry Potter fame.  ;) Devil May Care (S) X Phoenix (G) - Fawkes is 1/2 to 3 multiple stakes winner and another 2 single stakes winners. I really like his pedigree, both his sire and dam throw consistent high quality runners. Here's hoping he's another, looks like he may also have a little chasing ability, two of his siblings have shown ability in that sphere.

JeSais we also renamed Querido in a similar vein to his 1/2 sister Romancer who was my first horse on FF and met an untimely death after birthing her first foal. Needless to say this guy was pretty much a sentimental buy though he's got a great family on his side as well! Crystal Rainbow (S) X Believe Me (S) - His sire has had quite the success early on with only 2 foal crops consisting of a total of 13 winners from 23 starters and already has 3 multiple stakes winners, one of whom is a multi-millionaire and another 2 stakes winners. Those statistics are more impressive considering most of his foals seem to need some time to mature and look to hit their stride as 3yo's. On his mother's side he has quite the impressive family. He is a 1/2 brother to 2 multiple stakes winners one which is a millionaire and another who is a multi-millionaire. He also has another 2 siblings who are single stakes winners, one of whom is the aforementioned Romancer and the other I also own, Accolade. All 8 of his siblings who are of racing age are winners. Needless to say we are pretty excited about this guy!
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2010, 01:32:46 AM »

Well I have 3. With a new stable I probably should not have invested in a weanling but I bred each of these so I said what the heck ;D

Contentious    NCh. Seattle Sorcerer x Ch. Aerolite    Yearling     
Spirt Moon    NCh. Lasting Spirit x Ch. Harvest Goddess    Yearling
Last Road to Cross    NCh. Lasting Spirit x Ch. All Too Cross    Weanling     

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« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2010, 03:04:49 AM »

Well I have 3. With a new stable I probably should not have invested in a weanling but I bred each of these so I said what the heck ;D

Contentious    NCh. Seattle Sorcerer x Ch. Aerolite    Yearling     
Spirt Moon    NCh. Lasting Spirit x Ch. Harvest Goddess    Yearling
Last Road to Cross    NCh. Lasting Spirit x Ch. All Too Cross    Weanling     

Paul
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Missed your intro post, good to have you back Paul!
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megan1820
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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2010, 04:44:46 AM »

I got 2:

Arrogant    Filly    Worth My While x Galatica   Yearling
Unnamed Colt     A.P. Indy x Bonfire    Weanling

I need to come up with a name for that colt. I'm brainstorming at the moment.
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2010, 04:56:10 AM »

We decided to splurge just a bit (with having 1 foal sell for a good price, and this being the first year we can risk more than 15k, haha), and brought home 4 yearlings. Was hoping to get a 5th but the colt went out of our spending limit.

Cherokee Princess - by NCH. Boldness Shows (S) out of Cherokee Freedom.

Red Dog - We were super excited to get this guy. A son of the retired chef-de-race Almost Home (S) out of Foxy Queen (B), whose 2 racing-age foals are both winners.

Hills of Snow - by NCH. Gimme a Shot (S) out of Icy Honor (B), she is a half-sister to 4 winners and one stakes placer.

Pepper Bomb - Titanium x Red Hot Quesadilla (by Dizzybird Jazz).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 09:46:40 PM by Shelbie » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2010, 06:42:14 AM »

Well, we were rather sad to lose the NCh. Gazelle daughter we had set our hearts on, but we managed to get our 2nd choice.

Pearls of Wisdom is the last daughter of Sister Sage (G) and from WCh. Strider's first crop.  She's 1/2 to NCh. Highland Sage and GCh. Worthy Sage, as well as a handful of other stakes horses.

We are also happy to see the foals we listed sell for a reasonable sum this year.  Good luck to their new owners! 
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2010, 06:14:23 PM »

Pleased to finally come home with three, two colts and a filly (all unnamed) and all three were on the original wish list so I'm pretty happy with that.


First in Ganymede a yearling colt by Strider out of Across The Stars. He's from Strider's first crop so not quite sure what to expect but mum is stakes placed although no runners as of yet. She has an unraced 2yo in the Final Furlong stable.

Then the filly who's been named Rebel Yell. She's by Chef-de-Race Almost Home out of silver ranked Flash Photography. All the dam's previous foals are winners with two SWs and one MSW so fingers crossed she might have some potential.

And finally Unnamed by Giant's Causeway out of Just A Fox. The mare has produced one SW,MSP runner and the other two to race are both winners. Not sure exactly what he'll be called but as he's a weanling there's still a bit of time to make a decision. Had an afterthought regarding the name and I've gone for Sionnach which is apparently a very old Irish word for Fox  :)


« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:46:17 PM by imagine » Logged
Emma @ Generous Bloodstock
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2010, 06:53:54 PM »

Nabbed three, and didn't even have to max out at $100K! Success?  ;)

Yearling colt by Sadler's Wells out of Gold-rated Timeless Wiccan. He's been dubbed Donmar, after another very famous London theater. Very excited to debut him in a few months!

Weanling filly by NCh. Sneak Peek out of Gold-rate Lost Without You. She's been named Midnight Premiere, though she's got another year before she hits the track.

Weanling colt by GCh. Worth My While out of as-yet unrated Good Times Roll. He's still got a year at home as well, but I love Stormy Island's name for him-- Laissez Faire.

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« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2010, 06:58:02 PM »

With 37 yearlings ( :o ), I really shouldn't have made another addition...

I couldn't resist Highland Wish. She's a gorgeous 15.1h grey filly by WCh. As You Wish (S) out of Ch. Highland Fern (G). Her lines are fantastic - her sire is Secret of Love x Cross My Heart and her dam is Highland Rogue x Botany. I've got a soft spot for horses out of Highland Rogue mares and this little filly was going too cheap to give up!

Me thinks there will be a Vaucluse Farm sale in the new year so watch this space!
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« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2010, 09:14:05 PM »

Nice filly Jason.
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« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2010, 09:29:00 PM »

I got only one horse (so far), but this is the one I wanted the most (I also wanted that Just A Fox colt, but you can't win 'em all, lol). She's a tiny 14.1hh Unnamed yearling by No Duplicate out of ICh. Little Miss, the mare being a fantastic producer, and her own dam is a fantastic producer as well. I'm not sure yet what to name her, but I'm sure it'll come to me soon.
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« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2010, 02:08:49 AM »

Very happy with these three:

Diamond Ring is a pretty little yearling by Ich. Ring of Fire out of Diamondintherust, a daughter of Omaha, whose only foal to race to date is a stakes winner.

Parvenu, originally named Paparazzi, is by Ch. Rumor Has It out of Nouvelle Riche, who is Black Gold x Trouble Ahead (G). Did some research on her dam's name, which essentially means "new rich" and found something very similar in parvenu, which refers to someone who has recently ascended the social ladder and/or acquired wealth.

The Bent-Wing Bird, previously unnamed, by Nch. The Fighting Fifty x Striking Proposal. His dam is stakes placed and I own his half-brother, so I couldn't resist. I decided to go with a military theme for his name, and after some research was going to name him Corsair, after the famous WWII fighter plane. Unfortunately that was already taken, so I gave him its nickname instead.
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stormyisland
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« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2010, 02:32:28 AM »

For the first time I was a seller instead of a buyer (must keep a closer eye on the budget!) Best of luck to everyone who purchased one of our foals!
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« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2010, 09:20:17 AM »

Had 3 in mind, one I really want but missed out in the ballot  :'( actually forgot and missed the other two which went relatively cheap  ::) doh!

Still can home with 4 as I could resist  ::) all colts

Caliburn    2013    ICh. Alley Cat x GCh. Avalon
Corkscrew    2014    A.P. Indy x Entwining Spring
Scattered Mercury    2014    ICh. Dark Continent x Liquid Gold
Ariakas    2013    NCh. Highland Wizard x Ch. Pointed Remark

2 yearlings & 2 weanlings
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« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2010, 12:30:41 PM »

Went to the auction only looking to pick up 1 or 2 horses and ended up coming home with 5 weanling fillies.

Glamorous Gossip out of Rumor Has It x Sudden Appearance. This is the broodmares first foal but her siblings from Rumor Has It includes stakes placed.

Paris Lights out of created lines. Not sure what drew me into her but looking forward to seeing what she can do.

Robyn Hood out of Street Wise x Prosperous Cheater. I liked her pedigree and had her name written down for reserves and her lines just fit! Bought her with broodmare in mind (Little far to be thinking I know) if she doesn't make it on the track.

Scarlet Fever out of Dark Continent x Cherry Flavoured. I have a soft spot for Dark Continent. Her 1/2 sibling Cough Syrup has done really well on the track winning 6/9 starts. Hoping maybe this little gal will share some characteristics. With all said and done I had my eye on her and was happy to see her arrive in my stable!!

The Magic of Love out of Highland Magic x PS I Love You (Gone Haywire). I had my eye on this filly before the auction started and was bound and determined to have her!! I love her lines as I have been dying to get my hands on a Highland Magic foal (& a filly to boot!). Her 1/2 siblings are doing well and Im super excited to see what this little lady will bring!

All in all not bad. Im very happy with my selection and stayed under $65,000  ;)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 12:32:23 PM by SunStar » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2010, 02:52:53 PM »

I went to the auction just to look around (we all know how that goes) and came home with 2 yearlings spending over $30,000 for each.  ::)

Malizia out of Alley Cat x American Graffiti (Killing Time). I have always been an Alley Cat fan with Alydar, Highland Rouge & Native Dancer in his lines so when I saw her I had to snag her. Malizia is Italian for mischief.

Majestic Design out of A.P Indy x Gone Majestic. Her lines also drew me in with Seattle Slew and Secretariat on her sire's side and Mr. Prospector on her dam's.
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« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2010, 05:29:40 PM »

Of course we purchased a few beautiful foals.  I swear these auctions are too good to pass up most of the time. :)

So far we have 2 fillies:

Swing Jazz (Jazz It Up X A Splash Of Color) -
 After Jazz It Up's retirement we have really been wanting a few of his babies especially fillies.  We were fortunate enough to snag this cute little girl who is out of A Splash Of Color (A broodmare associated with the Nation's Pride lines as well as Seabiscuit to boot!).  Since her first foal was a winner we thought she was probably worth the gamble especially with these lines. :)

Previously Unnamed - Hope's Causeway (Giant's Causeway X Hope's Crossing)
Well we lost a Giant's Causeway filly a year or so ago and thought this little girl would make a nice replacement.  Hope's Crossing is half sister to one of our favorite broody's Hollywood Hopes and feel this dam line is tried and true.  We are super excited to have this filly.

**On a side note I was excited to see a bit of a fight for the Nightfight colt, Set If Off.  We wanted to make sure he got a decent start on the track, but are please to see him starting his training under Railbird Racing silks. Congrats!

After reading all the commotion about last minute bidding I feel bad about bidding on the last horse with 4 min left but I swear I just logged in to check and was excited to see he hadn't sold yet. I don't get a chance to get on the internet 24/7 and I lost a couple of my other "potentials" because I wasn't around to bid.  Sometimes it just happens that way...
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« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2010, 07:17:07 PM »

Well, being new and all I wanted to just get some nice yearlings for my that I could have running sometime in the coming year. I did some research on a couple foals and put them down as favorites and then looked at last years auction to try an gauge how much they would cost me. As I found out as the auction went on I was a bit off, but luckily came home with two foals.

Although I told myself I didn't need any weanlings I still ended up getting one. Sins Yet Unfound is from the first crop of Devil His Due and the first foal for her dam Pot of Gold. It should be interesting to sees how she does on the track with both parents new to the breeding shed but I've still got a while till that happens.

The other foal I came away with was one of my 'must haves'. Dark Seduction is from Dark Continent's first foal crop and out of the silver ranked mare Romance Me. Romance Me's foals are all winners, which includes the multiple stakes winning mare Not Another Mare. I'm quite excited to see how he'll do when he hits the track  :)
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« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2010, 10:46:59 PM »

Now we're just about finished, is it time to think how this auction is run?

The change that was made mid auction about the clock not re-setting if a new maximum bid isn't established was a great one but maybe the time before sold could be extended to 18 or 24 hours as we are all in different parts of the world and time zones.

I also think the spending limit should be scrapped, a number of the foals in the auction could have achieved far more than the $100k limit, this would help reduce some of the $$$ in the game that the leading stables have and create more realism.

If there needs to be any limits, maybe limit the number of horses able to be purchased, that way there will be a spread of horses purchased across all stables and budgets.

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« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2010, 11:17:08 PM »

I think the reason there is a spending limit is so that the newer stables or those who don't have the same sort of funds as the bigger stables have an equal chance of picking up a nice horse. The select auction does not have a limit, so the oportunity is there for the wealthier stables to spend big if they feel they need to. I think having a spending limit evens the playing field a bit.
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« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2010, 11:37:06 PM »

I think the reason there is a spending limit is so that the newer stables or those who don't have the same sort of funds as the bigger stables have an equal chance of picking up a nice horse. The select auction does not have a limit, so the oportunity is there for the wealthier stables to spend big if they feel they need to. I think having a spending limit evens the playing field a bit.

This is correct.

The 2yo, mixed, and foal auctions also generally have a limit on the number of horses you can buy, but this year was rather crazy and I forgot to add that flag in.
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« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2010, 01:01:12 AM »

If you want to see what happens when you take off spending limits, check out the Select Auction. 
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« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2010, 11:52:36 AM »

I think the reason there is a spending limit is so that the newer stables or those who don't have the same sort of funds as the bigger stables have an equal chance of picking up a nice horse. The select auction does not have a limit, so the oportunity is there for the wealthier stables to spend big if they feel they need to. I think having a spending limit evens the playing field a bit.

I understand why it's in place, doesn't mean it has to always be like that.

It seems no one has bothered to read or consider the reason I suggested it?
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« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2010, 12:04:46 PM »

We did, Andy, and responded to you. There is a FF-sponsored auction with no spending limits, and usually there are limits on the other auctions for the number of horses you can buy.

You're welcome to create your own auctions with no spending limit, but FF auctions' goals are to sell a bunch of horses (to all members, not just the richest in the game), and set things up so that all members who want a horse can buy at least one.
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« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2010, 12:25:32 PM »

I agree that perhaps some horses sell for less than they might if they were auctioned off without any maximum bid or spending limit. However, you could also look at it that you're getting a (potentially)  very good horse for a bargain price.
Personally I would rather keep the spending limit on the auctions that have them as that way it gives every stable a change to get a horse that might win them lots of money which they can have lots of fun sending in the select or private auctions.
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« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2010, 05:59:39 PM »

Quote
I agree that perhaps some horses sell for less than they might if they were auctioned off without any maximum bid or spending limit. However, you could also look at it that you're getting a (potentially)  very good horse for a bargain price.

I completely agree.  FF isn't out to see how much money it can make on horses or make sure they go for "market value".  The whole point of the limited auctions is to make sure the newer stables CAN afford the better horses in the auctions.  This avoids outrageous bidding wars that stables with less money would be forced out of.

 So basically, Andy, yes your point is legitimate in that the horses are not reaching their max potential, BUT, it is not a point that is prioritized in the limited auctions.  I do, however, like the suggestion to increase the auction end time to 24 hours.
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« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2010, 11:17:44 AM »

Quote
I agree that perhaps some horses sell for less than they might if they were auctioned off without any maximum bid or spending limit. However, you could also look at it that you're getting a (potentially)  very good horse for a bargain price.

I completely agree.  FF isn't out to see how much money it can make on horses or make sure they go for "market value".  The whole point of the limited auctions is to make sure the newer stables CAN afford the better horses in the auctions.  This avoids outrageous bidding wars that stables with less money would be forced out of.

 So basically, Andy, yes your point is legitimate in that the horses are not reaching their max potential, BUT, it is not a point that is prioritized in the limited auctions.  I do, however, like the suggestion to increase the auction end time to 24 hours.

Not about how much FF can make, was a suggestion to aid in removing some of the money from the game  ;)

We did, Andy, and responded to you. There is a FF-sponsored auction with no spending limits, and usually there are limits on the other auctions for the number of horses you can buy.

You're welcome to create your own auctions with no spending limit, but FF auctions' goals are to sell a bunch of horses (to all members, not just the richest in the game), and set things up so that all members who want a horse can buy at least one.

Of course everyone responded, but all they did was trot out what is in place now .... which we all know and why  ::)

This point was the point of my post .......



I also think the spending limit should be scrapped, a number of the foals in the auction could have achieved far more than the $100k limit, this would help reduce some of the $$$ in the game that the leading stables have and create more realism.


I would have though that can only be a good thing?
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« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2010, 01:03:08 PM »

But if you think about real life then It's usually the case that some owners have much more buying power than others, in that way in my opinion the game is very realistic. Just think of some of the bidding wars Coolmore and Darley have had over the years. It doesn't really make much of a dent in their overall finances and the way the game is at the moment I think it reflects that.   
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« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2010, 01:06:36 PM »

And what about the newer stables and the stables with less money? The point of Final Furlong is to have fun, not to become so realistic that some stables won't be able to own top racehorses because they can't afford them. It can be really frustrating not being able to own well-bred horses because of the incredibly high prices they go for when there aren't set limits. This is a game and that means we get to level the playing field so that everyone can have the chance to own some real nice horses.

Besides we already have the annual Select Auction. Seriously, have you seen the prices?
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« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2010, 02:38:29 PM »

Andy, let me see if I understand your argument--please correct me if I'm wrong!

Thesis: We should get rid of the spending limits on the foal auction (and all other auctions as well, I imagine)
1) This would remove some money from the game
2) This would add additional realism to the game.
3) People are against this idea of change because they want cheap horses

Do I understand you correctly?

People have responded with the following reasons:

1) The select auction is without a limit, and that removes money from the game
2) The limits on the auction, albeit that they may artificially deflate prices, ensure that even the smaller stables have  a chance of walking away with at least one horse
3) Imitating reality isn't the point of FF; it's ensuring that all members have fun, and sitting out of an auction because you can't afford it, isn't fun.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

So, allow me to address your points specifically.

1) This would remove some money from the game
: While I do agree with this theoretically, I don't think the FF-sponsored auctions are the place to do it.  Let's pretend that FF is not a free-market economy, perhaps it's more a socialist paradise in the sense that it does try to look out for the rights of its smaller, less established members.  Thus, look at the FF-sponsored auctions as if they were a subsidized auction so that the largest number of people can participate. 

If the problem is, is that you have earned so much money that the game is no longer a challenge to you because money is no longer an object, there are plenty of ways of removing some of your money from the game (I do say this tongue in cheek, however....not maliciously!):

1) Nominations -- they're expensive!  Nominate your entire stable for every possible race.  You'll lose at least a million in the process.

2) Send your horses on a world tour.  Shipping is expensive.  Send them to all those race tracks they don't normally get to see: Dubai, Japan, Hong Kong, Ireland, etc.  I mean, if they all go, that should relieve you of at least $100,000, right?  Also, fly them everywhere. 

3) Buy ridiculously over-priced horses that have been put up for sale privately--I think there's a couple available on the sale page now!

4) Send all your mares to the most expensive stallions in the game. 

5) Quit and start over from scratch.  Bam.  A whole bunch of money is instantly removed from the game, and you get the fun of budgeting/re-establishing yourself again. 

6) Talk to Shanthi and see if she'll lower the amount of money in your accounts.  She can do that.  =)

Of course, if your problem is that other stables have too much money, there's not much you can do about that except host your own auction and sell off your prized horses.  That should get some of their money out of the game--granted, it'd be in your pocket, but I've already given you some ideas on how to help yourself out of that problem.

2) This would add additional realism to the game. Making a game more real is good, right?  No.  If that were the case, we'd all be broke before we start, what with having to buy land, pay for fees for the vet, farrier, feed, trainers,  grooms, insurance, trailer-upkeep, fencing, etc.  Not to mention the random disasters (I used to play a SIM game where disasters were randomly handed out...people don't like it when it happens to them) that life tends to throw our way--broken legs in the pasture, the mare who won't get pregnant, the horse that goes sour and refuses to work, etc.  Games are not reality.  They're an escape from reality.  Reality isn't always fun, and the point of a game is to have fun, right?  Thus, there are certain things that are built into the game to ensure that all members, regardless of their "economic class" can participate. If the game is too hard or isn't fun for those just starting out, people will quit.  The FF-sponsored, socialist auctions are a way of giving them an option to buy horses with potential (i.e. younger than 6yo) for a cheaper-than-market-value price.  So, if it makes you feel better, just remind yourself that FF is not a free-market system.

3) People are against this idea of change because they want cheap horses: Well, who doesn't like cheap horses?  But I really don't think that's their point.  I think people are recalling the time when they started and didn't have a lot of money.  I think we all have stories of horses we picked up cheap at an FF-auction that turned into super horses. (My stallion, Dark Continent? $500 at the foal auction.)  Of course, we all have expensive duds (I spent $350k on a horse that I turned around and sold for $15k because the bugger wouldn't run!).  By eliminating the bidding ceiling, we will most likely do away the former and increase the instances of the latter.  For a small, unestablished stable, as the price of a horse goes up, the bigger of a risk it is in buying him because the horse NEEDS to earn back his purchase price and then some when money is tight.

I hope this addresses your points fully and explains why a lot of people (myself included) resist this idea.   
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« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2010, 08:32:56 PM »

CricketHill makes some very spot-on points. And I'm all for the argument that horses will sell for their market price. It's mostly FF horses who enter FF auctions, right? I think if a seller wanted more buck for their bang, they wouldn't consign their horse to an FF auction with spending limits.

Quote
The whole point of the limited auctions is to make sure the newer stables CAN afford the better horses in the auctions.  This avoids outrageous bidding wars that stables with less money would be forced out of.

I've played racing games before where those with less money are forced out, and simply put, it quickly loses its fun. With one of these games, I had as much as $3 million in the bank but I STILL couldn't compete with some farms because they were reeling in the millions every year in hosting their own sales, stakes wins, stud fees, ect. Granted said game had no taxes to try and keep the big guns down, but it's a real stab when you can't gain new horses at the auctions.

With a spending limit of 100k, big stables suddenly can't buy numerous horses in an auction for whatever price they can dish out. This was the first time I could spend more than 20-30k for anything and hey, I had fun! I still had fun when I had less money last year and the year before that, though, because I could purchase the bargain bin $1,000 horses. And this year, when I could spend more, I found myself for the FIRST time unable to raise a bid on a horse due to the spending limit. But by this point, I had won 3 horses and I didn't mind losing the third (ended up with another anyways). And hey, kudos to the person who got that horse. Notice how a lot of people tend to walk away with no more than 4 horses? And we have a LOT of members. If people are willing to bid the max on a consigned horse, then they probably don't really NEED (or perhaps want) more, since that's their decision. And not to make this sound selfish, but with the 100k winners out, that leaves plenty of other horses for other people to bid on, both the big and the small stables.
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« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2010, 10:03:51 PM »

But if you think about real life then It's usually the case that some owners have much more buying power than others, in that way in my opinion the game is very realistic. Just think of some of the bidding wars Coolmore and Darley have had over the years. It doesn't really make much of a dent in their overall finances and the way the game is at the moment I think it reflects that.   


Off topic but I got to inspect Darleys new training complex at Agnes Banks (outside of Sydney) the other day, not yet totally finished but boy is it impressive  :o both for horses and staff.
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« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2010, 10:13:00 PM »

Good to see I've at least got some of you thinking

And what about the newer stables and the stables with less money? The point of Final Furlong is to have fun, not to become so realistic that some stables won't be able to own top racehorses because they can't afford them. It can be really frustrating not being able to own well-bred horses because of the incredibly high prices they go for when there aren't set limits. This is a game and that means we get to level the playing field so that everyone can have the chance to own some real nice horses.

Besides we already have the annual Select Auction. Seriously, have you seen the prices?

I don't buy the 'what about stables with less money' we've all been there, we've all seen horses we'd love but couldn't afford it, we've all had to look for ways to get ahead.

Two of my best every horses cost $1k (River of Hope) no one bid on in an auction & a $5k claimer Formal Occasion.
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« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2010, 10:25:53 PM »

Good to see I've at least got some of you thinking

And what about the newer stables and the stables with less money? The point of Final Furlong is to have fun, not to become so realistic that some stables won't be able to own top racehorses because they can't afford them. It can be really frustrating not being able to own well-bred horses because of the incredibly high prices they go for when there aren't set limits. This is a game and that means we get to level the playing field so that everyone can have the chance to own some real nice horses.

Besides we already have the annual Select Auction. Seriously, have you seen the prices?

I don't buy the 'what about stables with less money' we've all been there, we've all seen horses we'd love but couldn't afford it, we've all had to look for ways to get ahead.

Two of my best every horses cost $1k (River of Hope) no one bid on in an auction & a $5k claimer Formal Occasion.

And that's great from your standpoint. From my standpoint, I know that FF is a bit of a niche game. You need to be in it for the long haul (as races aren't run every day, horses grow in real time, breeding really does take a full year, etc.) If members also needed to wait years and years before they could realistically participate in an auction, I'm guessing a lot of new members would quit. Obviously, I don't want that to happen.

I think you're confusing "getting people thinking" with "getting people to play along with your devil's advocate arguments" (not that there's anything wrong with playing devil's advocate). Numerous people have posted the same exact points, in greater or lesser detail/extent.

Cat made a great post. Bottom line: If you want to see auctions with no spending limits to balance out FF's economy, or whatever else you think needs fixing - create your own auction. Or lobby stables to create their own auctions. FF-sponsored auctions will continue to have spending/horse buying limits (except the Select auction, which is the "playground" one).
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« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2010, 10:31:35 PM »

Cat - good to see you at least thought about it  8)

It wasn't really about me having too much - I don't think I do and I'm sure there is stables with far more than me or any other stable in particular.

I just saw a way I thought it would improve the game while also adding to the realism. As I said if we needed restrictions, limiting the number of horses able to be purchased would be better. After all the most recent auction had 134 horses brought by 50 stables. if you limited purchases to say 4 or 5 per stable there would still be plenty to go around and prices towards the bottom end would still stay low while the top lots would sell for a lot more.

Anyway everyone is in agreement with Shanthi (as always) so I'll crawl back under my rock and forget about it.  8)  
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« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2010, 10:45:46 PM »

Andy, I think I'm losing track of what your point is. Why exactly do you want lesson some of the bigger stables' spending power? It's a valid point that horses don't have to be expensive to be big money winners, I'd imagine that would be part of the thrill of the game. What I'm not quite getting (and sorry if i'm being dim) is why you think the game as a whole would benefit from getting rid of sending limits in the FF auctions. Isn't it possible that if limits were abolished then those $1000 horses might 
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« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2010, 10:52:55 PM »

Disappear altogether? Sorry posting form a mobile and it keeps cutting out! As the wealthier stables can afford to spend more on the more popular horses and out bid everyone else there's more competition for the remainder and the prices go up. Bigger stables buy  more horses, win more races on average as they're racing more and ultimately have more money to spend on buying and breeding even more horses and the cycle continues. Smaller stables can't compete with that.   
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« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2010, 11:12:25 PM »

Hey Andy, I'm glad you realized I was listening and thinking about your points. I think everyone who responded thought about it and I don't think it's fair to accuse people otherwise.   The only thing I did differently was to reiterate your points.  Maybe I explained things a bit more clearly, but they were the same points everyone else had made.  I am, sadly, not that original.      

I've been around long enough to see the game evolve.  There have been times when we've had 150 active stables, so while your idea may have worked on a smaller scale, imagine if there were more stables bidding than there were horses available.  The auction needs to work when FF is filled with active members as well as when our numbers are much smaller, and it's hard to find that balance.

It's fine to suggest things--it's great that Shanthi even listens to us!--but please understand there usually is a good reason for the way things are.  Feasible ideas will generally generate positive posts (see the tweak about restarting the timer earlier in this thread), while those which may not be feasible for whatever reason generally receive a lot resistance. When you receive a lot of resistance, it's best to just drop it even if you think you're right. 
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