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Author Topic: Over-Racing Problem?  (Read 2740 times)

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MJM_RACING

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Over-Racing Problem?
« on: May 07, 2005, 05:05:48 am »
 Now I dont generally

complain or whine...but I think overall most horses over-race in this game... My prime

example is the comparison of the final furlong Kentucky Derby and the "real" Kentucky

Derby.
The horses that are running in the "real" derby have made only 4-14 career starts.
A

pretty low number I must say...these are the top 3-yr olds in the country so its obvious the

owners are not going to push these precious animals too hard.
In FF Kentucky Derby the range

is 11-29 career starts... a significant increase(and im sorry but if you have run a 3yr old

29 times by May 1st that is cruel)

Now I dont know if others agree with me that there is

an over-racing problem and I really dont have a good solution either to fixing it, if it is

an agreed problem. I would suggest more injuries to the horses...maybe minor ones..that they

will recover from..but just make them run at 60% instead of 100%, or have the rest time

required to be longer....before a horse is at full energy.

I think some of these have been

suggested in other threads....
Thanks for listening to my rant...
Good luck and Happy

Racing to all

Offline Shanthi

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2005, 05:11:27 am »
 This will be fixed (or at

least alleviated) with the racing revamp.  Until then, there's not a whole lot that can be

done to require that a horse race less often than once or twice a month.

The code is

already very injury-happy (it's tried to break legs about a dozen times so far), so I'm

very hesitant to encourage it to injure more.

JasonCameron

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2005, 01:10:26 pm »
 I can take credit for one of

my horses being the most raced. However, I generally give my horses around 14 days off

between races. And, my two Derby horses had pretty steady 2YO years. I think it is quite hard

to compare everyone in the game to the 'American' style of racing. In other parts of the

world, especially Australia and Asia, it is not uncommon for us to race our horses very long

and hard campaigns. I don't have a problem at all with the amount of racing anyone in the

game gives their horses. I think racing 4 days apart is a big mistake and probably anything

more than 2-3 weeks straight is wrong too. And, I think you have to remember that it depends

on the horse, and very much so the style of the trainer. :D

Good luck in the Derby.

KindleHopeFarms

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2005, 04:16:16 pm »
 This might be a little

repetative... sorry.. I'm strung out on coffee.. (finals week...:-/) I'll say that I think

the reason why FF 3 y/o's appear over-raced is simply because the training implement is on

the way and basic training in FF is partially assumed, but can only happen as the horse is

actually running races. Really, a horse in it's 2 y/o year runs only 4-8 starts because at

that age they're silly! Just Kidding.. These horses have to know lead changes and control.

There are horses in the Derby that *still* don't understand that control factor (those that

burn themselves off in the first furlong)! Since horses in FF have to race to get better,

we're running them twice as much. Since there are so many cool factors in the works anyway,

I'm sure that will be taken care of with the training elements.

Offline Shanthi

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2005, 04:45:02 pm »
 Very true, Kerry.  In

real-life training, horses generally don't start doing gallops until the winter/spring that

they turn 2.  Given that, it's unreasonable to expect that they be race-worthy before fall,

unless they're exceptionally mature (physically and mentally).  In FF, 2yos are assumed to

have figured that out by April, and can run all they want once 2yo races start (though, as

stated before, they do suffer a handicap for being immature).

Hopefully once workouts are

an option, and there is a "natural energy" reserve that the horse has that is limited (thus

requiring long breaks after a racing campaign, etc.), this "problem" of over-racing will be

taken care of.

However, also consider that in real life, horses injure themselves/get sick

just through day-to-day life...in FF, horses only get injured during races.  As much as I'd

love to make FF as realistic as possible, I'm not about to code in a horse colicking because

someone didn't log in quick enough to fill his water bucket.  ;)  (Which could happen in

real life, possibly).

Andrea

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2005, 05:23:36 pm »
 Also since training isn't

implemented we often find that we have to run our big runners more often just to keep them

fit.  For instance I ran As You Wish in a race that was below the level I'd normally run him

at just so he'd get a prep race so he'd be "fit" for the Derby.  Originally training was

supposed to be implemented with this race program, so the racing code is set up to expect

horses to be run in some fashion fairly frequently.

Plus, Jason has a point.  American

horses these days are total wusses.  They've been making a huge point over how alot of these

Derby horses are coming in off 2 3yo preps and that's unusual (in the past the accepted

number is 3).  

Jockey Girl

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2005, 12:24:21 am »
 I hope once a week isn't

too bad, :) I don't want my horse to get hurt :unsure:  

Andrea

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2005, 01:13:20 am »
 One a week might be pushing

it, but if he seems to be doing his best every time out, then it could work for him.  Energy

wise it's 4-27 days or something... I forget what exactly.  It's in the FAQ and newbie

guide I'm sure.

JasonCameron

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2005, 11:44:59 am »
 
Quote
This will

be fixed (or at least alleviated) with the racing revamp. Until then, there's not a whole

lot that can be done to require that a horse race less often than once or twice a

month.

Sorry, just going back to something here... I've been thinking

about solutions to our over racing problems. Here's my idea... :rolleyes:

I don't think

we should be aiming to have horses run only once or twice a month. In real racing, horses

campaign generally according to seasons, that is, spring, summer, autumn and winter race

carnivals. Generally in Australia a horse will target two of these, but never consectutive

seasons. During this, a horse will race at least twice, but more often three times a month.

Totalling in maybe an average 7-9 runs over the three month period. In effect, this would

limit the horse to probably 13-19 [13 and 19 being the 'extreams' of the scale] races per

year which is far more realistic than what we currently have.

Maybe we could have

something implemented where ALL horses must have a continuous minimum amount of

days in between races
, that is, the horses must be spelled in between

campaigns. So say, for example, I want to campaign for the Cox Plate [Spring] each year. Once

I have raced in the Cox Plate, my horse must have a minimum of something like continuous 90

days in the paddock before he or she can get back on the track for possible a campaign for

the Queen Elizabeth Stakes [Autumn]. During this time, if the horse is given long enough,

soundness could repair, light training could be used to improve some stats, and so on and so

on... This period would also be perfect with the shipping we will introduce. A horse will be

able to be shipped straight after their final race of their campaign and then get used to

their host country whilst they have an overseas campaign.

I don't know how this would

work, but in my opinion [as everything is ;) ] I think this is a pretty good idea and would

be a far more realistic sort of method as opposed to have a horse race once a month, maybe

twice, throughout the whole year. In effect, that method means that a few of the best horses

have a superior chance in all the GIs held throughout the year. My suggestion means all the

good horses will be spread out and given a more equal opportunity to win GIs in the various

season carnivals. Also, with my suggestion, all racehorses are given the chance to have a

well planned and concise campaign and, at the same time, are given adequate rest with at

least six months of no racing.

Obviously this applies mainly to 3YO+ racehorses. We would

need a different system for 2YOs in order to limit their races to approximately 8 races

during their first year. Possibly they would only need a continuous rest of 45 days or

something similar. Nitty gritty details could be debated/sorted if this idea is accepted I

guess.

So how does everyone feel about this? And more importantly, would this be possiblt

to implement if this is how we might want to do things Shanthi?

Offline Shanthi

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2005, 11:59:49 am »
 I've already brought

something like this up, in my post about revamping the code, with the "natural energy"

concept.  With that, I think that any sort of non-pasture activity will use up N.E., and once

your horse runs out, he'll need several weeks (or months) of pasture rest/light training to

recover his will to race (since I view N.E. as a mental thing just as much as a physical

thing).  Obviously shipping and racing would sap that a lot faster than just cantering 3

furlongs.

JasonCameron

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2005, 12:22:48 pm »
 Cool! :)

I just think it

might be important to realise that it is quite rare for a horse to go four weeks between

races. Normally it is mostly two weeks as far as I can gather. :)

But yeah, new code

sounds very interesting to say the lease! :D

Andrea

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2005, 12:56:20 pm »
 Not in the States, Jase ;).  

Over here the Stakes horses tend to run around once every 6-8 weeks.  Getting ready for the

Derby is probably the ONLY time these horses run more often than that.  Not saying that it's

the way FF should do it (in fact, I really hope it isn't!) just reminding you that

everywhere doesn't do it the Aussie way and that Shanthi and I'll probably do it closer to

the way we race over here ;)

Offline Shanthi

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2005, 02:14:54 pm »
 I agree with Andrea, esp.

since FF horses are probably closer to the US "wimpyness", given that based on an injury in a

race, their soundness score can go down (so over a lifetime of racing, they could potentially

go from an 8 to a 5).  Not that it will happen that way for all horses, but it

could.

Ideally, I'd like horses to be able to run every 10-14 days for about 2 months,

and then need a layoff.  Alternately, if they run every 21-28 days, they're more likely to

last for 6 months before a layoff.

Remember, training will enable you to keep your horses

fit, not to mention figure out what they might do well at.  Given that, you can afford to

wait for the perfect race for you horse, rather than just tossing him in anything he might

qualify for just to keep him in shape.

Offline Shanthi

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 02:38:26 pm »
 Oh, and the "ideal" of 10-14

vs. 21-28 days would be based on your average race.  Obviously, if a horse puts in no effort,

or puts in 150% effort into a race, the number of races he'll be able to handle will change.


JasonCameron

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2005, 07:52:06 pm »
 
Quote
just

reminding you that everywhere doesn't do it the Aussie way
Hehe, the

Asian trainers are even crazy-ier than us! For example, Silent Witness will race a couple of

months pretty heavy and then rest. And, I've heard the European trainers eace quite

simalarily to us - especially around their 'peak' racing season, that is, Oaks, Derby,

Ascot and such... :)

But yeah, back to the point of my reply, I reckon a 14-21 day bracket

for like three months might work well. If you have to race outside this than your horse will

suffer/rest accordingly and, also affect how long of a 'spell'/'natural engery recovery'

period he or she needs. For example, the Irish 2000 Guineas was run 10 days prior to the

Irish Derby which is run tomorrow. :)

Andrea

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2005, 09:16:01 pm »
 Jason, did you have a point

to that?  Other than to give us permission to do what we're going to do regardless? ;)

JasonCameron

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Over-Racing Problem?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2005, 02:20:54 am »
 Sorry, I just get over

excited! :P